NO proof that I owed
Complaint
Linda
Country: United States
I got a notice to pay a phone bill from 1993 with NO proof that I owed it. I've read a few of the other complaints and some sound very similar to mine. The question is - what good does it do to complain here? What happens if you don't pay? How can they ask for 14 year old money when the FDIC only makes banks keep info for 7 years? I have not found a way to prove I paid it or not. Any suggestions?
Comments
2) If the debt actually went delinquent in 1993, with no payments ever made after that time, and you never pay, probably nothing happens.
They cannot legally report it to credit reporting agencies since it is more than 7 years after the original date of delinquency. They can't legally sue you if it is past SOL in your state. If they did sue, SOL would be a defense. If they even threatened to report or sue, they would violate FDCPA for threatening an action that they could not legally take, and you could sue THEM.
They already know all this. All they can do is try to threaten you, probably indirectly by implication, while trying to maintain some defense if you actually sue them. They are safe if all they do is send you a collection letter. If you send them a validation letter, they will probably answer with some request for proof of your "dispute", when they know they are prohibited from continued collection until they validate.
They may request that you contact them. There is not much point, unless you enjoy debating, or want to record them, since it won't resolve anything. If you were to call them, they will probably make all sorts of implied threats or claims, since as some other consumers have reported, their employees have been trained to make "assumptions".
For example, they have been reported to claim that old debts can hurt your credit and you might not be able to buy a house or car, that they don't have to validate because it is so old, that they have already sent you lots of letters, so your opportunity to request validation has passed, that you have to prove you don't owe it or else you have to pay, etc. etc. They have probably pulled your credit reports, and have your SSN and DOB, whether that was ever on the original account, so they may use that to "prove" this is your account if you claimed it was not. All those deceptive statements would violate FDCPA. They apparently think lying on the phone is safer than doing it in writing, and they are probably right.
3) They can ask, but you are correct. Any 14 year old alleged "debt" is suspect. No business or government agency would pay anything on an alleged "bill" presented 14 years late, and they wouldn't even feel sorry over it, either. (Look at your phone bill, or your credit card bill, sometime. You don't catch an error promptly, tough luck!)
Furthermore, it is not your responsibility to prove you don't owe some alleged debt. Under FDCPA, if you request validation in writing within 30 days of receiving their initial collection letter, it is their obligation to provide written validation of any alleged debt, obtained from the original creditor, or cease all collection activity until they do so.
They can ask for anything they want, legitimate or not. Doesn't mean you are even the actual consumer on the account. Doesn't mean you actually owe it. Doesn't mean you have to pay them a dime. Doesn't mean they can do anything but ask.
One reason SOL exists is because delaying action on a claim puts the alleged debtor at a disadvantage, due to the difficulty of obtaining accurate documentation and proof of debts and payments. The courts don't want to be dealing with a bunch of old claims that might be just errors in old records. Just because some record at some time showed an amount owed does not mean that same record is later proof the amount is still owed. If it was so damn valuable, they should have asked for payment years ago. In fact, maybe the reason no bill was sent earlier was that nothing was owed.
Your first response is to send them a dispute and validation letter, mailing it certified, return receipt requested. That way, they have to validate to do anything else, whether the debt is recent, or from 1993. Include in this letter that they cannot contact you at work, and that it is inconvenient for them to contact you by phone at any time.
If they continue to attempt to collect without validation, you proceed to file complaints with IL AG, your state AG, and FTC, since their continued collection without validation is a violation of FDCPA.
If they call you, log all calls, tell them you have requested validation and they have not provided it, and request that they do not call. File complaints, and you can sue.
If they send you junk validation, with no tracability or indication it is even from the original creditor, you file complaints, and send them a letter indicating that what they sent was not validation from the original creditor as required by FDCPA, that you are still disputing the debt, and that you are requesing that they cease communications. If they violate that with continued collection, you file additional complaints and then sue.
If they put this on your credit reports, you dispute thru the credit reporting agencies, and if AFNI "verifies", you file additional complaints, and sue them for reporting false information on credit reports, and "re-aging".
Was any information provided to indicate this was related to an actual account you had in 1993, as compared to someone else's account? If so, what?
What original date of delinquency is showing? When does it say it will be removed?
To sue them for reporting erroneous information on your credit reports, you have to first dispute it thru the credit reporting agency. If it is your account, but is being reported past the 7.5 years from first delinquency allowed by FCRA, dispute as such ("obsolete, illegally re-aged, not reportable under FCRA").
If they fail to remove it, and still falsely "verify" it as accurate, get printed copies of your reports showing the error and either sue them, possibly in small claims court, or contact an attorney with experience in FDCPA and FCRA litigation.
If you requested validation within 30 days of receiving their initial letter, and they are continuing to collect, without having sent any validation, you may also be able to sue them under FDCPA.
You might try: www.naca.net
If your credit reporting agency dispute does not get it removed, you should also send complaints to your state AG, to the IL AG, and to FTC, reporting their failure to validate, continued collection, "re-aging", and illegal reporting of the account.
(Note: This is NOT a recommendation, and in fact, I have no personal experience with any of them. Mainly, these showed up on google searches,
as having indicated either thru their websites, or thru news articles, that they have represented clients dealing with problems similar to this, and in some cases appear to have represented clients having problems with AFNI. If they are not licensed in your state, they may be able to put you into touch with other attorneys who are. These are listed more to show that there are attorneys out there who appear to take these kinds of cases, and that you might do your own search, or even ask an attorney practicing in this area even if in another state, in order to find one willing to represent you. Attorneys who do not do much FDCPA/FCRA work might not be cost effective in representing you in this area.)
www.alabamaconsumer.com
www.floridacreditlawyer.com
www.edcombs.com
Brennan won $100K recently, in an FDCPA/FCRA suit, Nelson v. Arrow.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/05/prweb524797.htm
www.brennanlaw.com/
These sites list various attorneys practicing in this area of law:
www.myfairdebt.com
http://www.myfairdebt.com/b/biographies/
http://www.myfaircredit.com/s/about-the-attorneys
David Szwak david@MyFairCredit.com
I really appreciate your quick response. I am really serious and I am 100% planning to sue Afni so that they stop ripping off other victims. I think we all should take an action against Afni to protect the other consumers.
Requesting documentation is NOT sending you validation. Their standard letter "requesting documentation" is similar to what this consumer reports:
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/3894/page/4
"I have indeed heard back from AFNI after having sent them a DEBT VALIDATION LETTER (Certified, return receipt requested and in accordance with the FDCPA). In the letter I requested they validate the debt and provide any and all documentation as well as stating the debt was not mine. The letter I received back was again a bill that stated they could NOT provide verification of the debt at this time but needed more information from me including a copy of my driver's license, ID page of my passport, proof of payment of the debt, such as a receipts--basically nothing that I would or could provide them. How do you provide receipts for a service you never had? How does sending them my sensitive private information help them if, as I suspect, they have nothing to compare it to? I am beyond furious. ..."
They have basically stated they can't validate, yet they are still trying to collect. Any letter they send you will probably also say something like:
"THIS COMMUNICATION IS FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR. This an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose."
again confirming that despite not validating, they are still trying to collect on the "debt" by attempting to shift the burden of proof onto you.
If this is the response you get, file written complaints with FTC, your state AG, and the IL AG, indicating that you disputed and requested validation of this alleged debt within 30 days, and that they replied that they couldn't provide any validation, but are still trying to collect on the debt in violation of FDPCA. Send copies of your correspondence.
Same if they send you some "validation" that has no indication that it came from the original creditor. If it is not your debt, and you never had an account with that creditor, then no "validation" is proof that it is, and any manufactured "validation" of dubious origins is most likely an attempt to defraud you.
When does AFNI claim it went delinquent?
Are they reporting it on your credit reports?
Do you believe it is not even your account,
or do you beleive it may have been your account, but is not owed?
1.The account is a verizon phone bill that I believe it is in late 1999.
2.Afni did not claim when it went delignquent. They just said in the collection notice that I owe $800 and they listed the phone number in the notice
3.Afni said that they would report it on my credit report
4.I do belive the phone number listed in the notice is mine but I don't believe that I owe any money because I paid the bill in full and on time but I don't have any record because it was long time ago.
I just checked my trans union report today and there is a section where it lists all creditors that are trying to offer credit for me and I discoverd that Afni checked my credit on 9/2006 but has not reported any negative information yet which means they are trying to do so. How can Afni get access to my report? Why does trans union let collection agencies see customers report? Trans Union said that those inquires are not visible by other creditors but it still it doesn't make sense.
If you paid the bill in full and on time, presumably at the time you closed the account, regardless of whether you can now prove it, can you use that to establish to your own satisfaction when that would have been done, such as at a time you moved, or at a time you changed to a different phone company? Since they are playing poker, if you know their hand, and know it is weak, they can't bluff you.
If it in fact went delinquent in late 1999, then worst case, Jan. 2000 + 7.5 years is July 2007. Under FCRA, negative information can only be reported for at most 7.5 years after the original date of delinquency.
Sounds like they are out of luck.
If in fact they know that they can't report it, they lied when they said they would. That is a violation of FDCPA, for deceptive collection and threatening to take an action they cannot legally take. It is still their responsibility to prove you owe it, not yours to prove you don't. That is what requesting validation is all about.
If they have already received your dispute and validation letter, they are prohibited from continuing collection until they send you validation. That includes reporting it on your credit reports if they have not already done so.
If you have confirmed their receipt of your validation letter, and have confirmed that they are NOT currently reporting this, then if they later DO report it but without sending you validation first, they will have violated the FDCPA prohibition against continued collection without validation, and probably also for failing to mark the account as "disputed" if it was not marked disputed. You could then sue them on that.
Also, if they are reporting it at all when more than 7.5 years have passed from the original date of delinquency, that is "re-aging", and you can sue under FCRA. You would dispute thru the credit reporting agency, and if AFNI "verified" and didn't remove it, you could sue.
As background on what types of old accounts AFNI appears to be claiming have balances due, how was this account terminated?
Was the account closed in late 1999, or was it transferred into another party's name?
Was there some amount in dispute with Verizon, but the dispute was resolved?
Was this account in collection, but paid and settled with a different collection agency?
Or was this account simply closed and the final bill paid directly to Verizon?
What I am trying to get a picture of is whether ANFI is receiving accounts from Verizon that were classified within Verizon's record keeping system as having amounts owed, or whether they are "reinterpreting" Verizon's records, perhaps reclassifying written-off disputed but resolved balances as "amounts due", or perhaps ignoring that Verizon transferred an account and phone number to a different party, and pursuing a debt against another party that Verizon's own records might not even show owes it.
This is not to say they will not put collection accounts on reports. Other consumers have reported that AFNI has put recent collection accounts on their reports, even in cases where they are "misidentified".
If they checked your credit on 9/2006, but didn't report this, it is probably too old to legally report, despite their threat.
"Senator Calls For AFNI Investigation
Last Update: 9/10 6:12 pm
Syracuse (WSYR-TV) - We have a Your Stories Q&A, with the latest on a debt-collection firm that many of you have complained about.
A downstate state senator is now asking the Attorney General to take a look. Senator Owen Johnson has fired off a letter to Attorney General Andrew Cuomo asking Cuomo to probe "what appears to be an unfair debt collection act by Anderson Financial Network, Incorporated," otherwise known as AFNI.
The letter asks Cuomo to "investigate...to determine if AFNI is operating within the law."
Dozens of Your Stories viewers will be eager to hear what the Attorney General decides. You’ve told us about the collection notices sent by AFNI, for phone bills dating back into the mid 90's.
In many cases, the debt was never incurred in the first place, or had long since been paid. Verizon sold about a million old accounts to the AFNI company.
We'll keep you posted on what, if anything, Attorney General Cuomo decides to do about AFNI. "
That was 3 weeks ago. I received a letter in the mail today stating that I owed them nothing and any marks on my credit would be deleted in the next 60 days.
Usually in the past they have been reported to even respond to written demands for validation with a reply letter demanding you send proof of your dispute before they can "investigate".
Technically, a phone dispute is still a dispute under FDCPA, even if it would be difficult to prove it in court.
Pull your credit reports. If there are any collection accounts on them from AFNI, be sure to dispute them in writing with the credit reporting agencies. AFNI has no legal liability under FCRA for errors they place on your credit reports until you dispute and they "verify" the errors, even though they have said in their letter they would remove them.
While you are at it, see if your credit reports show an inquiry from AFNI, indicating they pulled your credit reports. If so, file a complaint with FTC and IL AG, indicating that Verizon shows no record of this debt in your name, and that AFNI pulled your credit reports without the permissible purpose required by FCRA.
Most likely, they searched on the name on the account in your state, and found that your maiden name was similar. It might not even be very similar. It might not even have been similar at all. Maybe the address on the account was an address that you at one time lived at. Maybe the bill was already paid. Maybe they just made it up. Maybe they sent it to 20 other people for the same weak reasons they sent it to you. Maybe lots of things, none of which they are likely to prove.
Dispute the debt, and request that they obtain proof that you owe it from the original creditor. Do it in writing, and mail it certified, return receipt requested.
According to FCRA, a debt can be reported on your credit reports at most 7.5 years from the original date of delinquency.
The statute of limitations for suing you depends on state law.
BBB reports 918 complaints "resolved" in the last 3 years, with 659 in the last year alone. Most of those were actually in the last 10 months.
It is not clear from your report whether you placed a "fraud alert" on your credit reports, or whether you specifically disputed AFNI's collection accounts on those reports thru the credit reporting agencies. If you have not already done so, dispute each of the "erroneous" collection accounts, indicating that they are not your accounts, and that you have never opened these accounts with T-Mobile. The 3 credit reporting agencies should get back to you within 30 days, and if the result of the "investigation" is that AFNI has "verified" the accounts, leaving them on your reports, then they can be held liable under FCRA.
In addition, if AFNI "verifies" the erroneous information after they received your dispute and validation letter (sent within 30 days of you receiving their first collection letter), then their faulty verification is also a violation of FDCPA, which prohibits continued collection activity until they have sent you validation obtained from the original creditor.
While you are waiting for the results of your credit report disputes, call T-Mobile and see what you can find out about the account. Is there any account under your name and SSN, or is this account number someone else's account? Keep notes, including who you talk to, and when, and request confirmation in writing (which they may or may not send, but request it anyway). If you find out there is no account under your name and SSN, file a mail fraud complaint with the U.S. Postal Inspector.
If the result of the credit reporting agencies' "investigation" is that AFNI "verifies", leaving the erroneous negative information on your credit reports, send complaints to Illinois Attorney General, your state AG, and FTC.
Keep all notices from your current creditors indicating changes of credit card terms due to negative information on your reports, request a written Adverse Action Notice and pull the indicated credit reports used in their decisions so you can show that AFNI's errors are causing you damage, and start contacting attorneys with expertise in FDCPA and FCRA litigation.
You might try:
www.naca.net