a two dollar key chain

ComplaintsCollection Agenciespalmer,reifler.& assoc

Complaint

0
GLORIA LESTER
Country: United States
My 16 year oldwas in spencer's at the mall looking at the key chains,when herfriend called her attention to someone walking bythe store.Daughterhad key chain on finger went to talk to friend.An employee ran up to her yelling stealing stealing,The mall cops were called and she was taken to the office.detective told me I would receive a letter from juvenile on when to go to court.I received a letter today saying settlement offer at the top of page.It says"Upon reasonable cause, notice is given of Spence Gift's demand for paymentof damagesin the amount of 150.00arising out of your alledged theft of property owned by SPENCERGIFTS.Code51-10-6,you further notified that if the amount is not paidor an agreement to its payment is not reachedwithin 30 days Spencer GIFTS may bring an action against you for such an amount plus attourney's fees and court cost".Now I wasn't there so what do I know?Is this LEGIT OR NOT?called detective that got her and he said wait for letter from juvenile for court.Please what do I do?

Comments

  • 0
    tj
    Basically, the merchant passes information to Palmer, Reifler.& Associates, who sends out these letters, and splits the take with the merchant.  Their goal is to spend a few pennies on postage, and whatever checks they get are pure profit.  They are looking for easy money.

    Although your daughter may have exercised poor judgement, it doesn't sound like she had any intent to steal anything.  Presumably she didn't even go running off to try to avoid getting caught.  Even if it does go to court, it's not clear the outcome will be any better for paying them off, nor is it likely you would be running up high legal bills in her defense.  The mall detective is probably out of this loop, and it may or may not even be the store's decision whether it goes to court, regardless of whether you pay them off.
     
    This shows up:

    http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/retaile ... egal_extortion/

    http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202423589910


    According to the WSJ article, they sidestep protections against deceptive collection in the FDCPA that apply to debt collectors, since they claim this is a "tort", an issue of "damages".  The deception is still present, as apparently they seldom actually sue, even though they are implying they will, even though they emphasise the possible costs of attorney fees if they did sue.

    There is no guarantee that if they did sue, that a court would award them the "damages" they claim ($150 on a $2 keychain taken inadvertently, and immediately returned), or their "attorney fees".  In fact, if a debt collector wrote a letter like this, to collect on a consumer debt, they could probably be sued by the consumer under FDCPA or equivalent state laws.  They carefully avoid calling it a "debt", instead calling it "damages".  Just because FDCPA may not apply doesn't mean the letter is any less deceptive.

    Although they are implying by sending this letter that something will happen if you don't pay them off, it is not clear that if you do pay them, it will make any difference in the end, except that you will be #150 poorer.  Whatever shoplifting case there is may or may not go forward, regardless of whether you pay them or not, and even if it did, it still probably wouldn't affect whether they sued, as apparently they seldom do.  They would probably run into trouble saying, for example, "pay us or we will prosecute you", and they have carefully avoided saying that.

    It's basically a deceptive "shakedown" or con.

    Note, I am NOT an attorney, just a student of deceptive scams.
  • 0
    GLORIA LESTER
    Thank you sooo much for your help!I'm paying them a penny.I appreciate your quick response.
  • 0
    Check your sources
    I'd be careful before taking advice from some random person on the internet.

    You need to do the homework yourself and not trust a stranger b/c other opinions prevail on other websites.
  • 0
    tj
    | 2 replies
    Be aware that with anonymously posted opinions as much as with attributed ones, the authors may have motive to, and intend to, slant your perception, in a direction different from what an informed analysis of a situation might otherwise convince you.  Slanting may be not just in the form of deceptively presented "facts", but also in skewing of the degree of risk or uncertainty.

    Confusion and obfuscation are integral parts of deception, as they act to deny reliable alternative sources of information that might counter the deceptive storyline.
    • 0
      v;otr replies to tj
      | 1 reply
      So which are you confusion or obfuscation...or both?
      • 0
        tj replies to v;otr
        FFG?
  • 0
    tj
    Here is the Wall Street Journal article, including several of P,R&A's excuses for why the amount they demanded in several reported cases was many times the amount allowed by Florida law (reported to be 3X actual damages).  Since they claim to not be collecting a "debt", it does not appear they apply even the normal compliance practices expected of debt collectors.  Rather barbaric.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120347031996578719.html
  • 0
    tj
    Be aware that it appears that "supporters" of the company appear to  actively troll the web, posting their storyline in an attempt to control public perception of both the legitimacy of their claims and the probability of their implied threat.


    For example:
    https://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-866-736-8850
    http://www.lawknowledge.org/criminal-law-procedure/53701/
    http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/palmer--rei ... rs---23234.html
    http://sfcriminallawyer.blogspot.com/2010_05_01_archive.html
  • 0
    tj
    Report of R,P&A "shakedown" attempt in a poorly handled Home Depot employee "loss prevention" case.  

    Note that this employee is specifically NOT accused of theft, and indeed there is no evidence or proof of any theft by employee or even that rental equipment went missing while he was on duty, only that they don't know what happened to some rental equipment weeks earlier, and supposedly this employee might have checked better although he had had no training in company procedure in this area when he was asked to handle rentals.  It may even have disappeared AFTER it was checked in, outside of the control of this employee.  

    Home Depot attempts to recover their "loss" (if any), by firing the employee, disputing the unemployement claim (which dispute they lost in court after withholding the alleged tape on which they claim to have based their decision), then a year later trying using R,P&A to "shakedown" their ex-employee.

    Numerous problems with California labor law, and doesn't even fit within "civil recovery" laws, yet here comes P,R&A, just like any other debt collector, making unsubstantiated demands.  

    Even if the employee was negligent in signing in equipment, California labor law generally does not allow recovery from the employee of employer losses for such errors where the employee didn't actually take anything.  That is the employer's risk, they had control over and chose how they would handle it, and they have the obligation to take such prudent actions (like training?) necessary to protect their interests.

    Note P,R&A only shows up a year later, after CA labor law SOL passes (1 year).  Real clever.

    Also note that similar cases often arise in employee fraud and theft cases where other employees or management more familiar with the system take advantage of that knowledge to steal and stick some new or inexperienced employee with it.  One indicator of such possible fraud is the presence of sloppy controls and training.  

    Those indicators of conditions conducive to internal fraud are present here:  1)  Asked on short notice to handle task without normal training (why?)  2)  new loss control personnel (why?  What did the old ones do/fail to do?),  3)  investigation of an alleged loss weeks after it supposedly occurred (why?)  4)  attempt by the employer to game the unemployement compensation system (reflects on managment competence, similar to (1), (2), and (3), and integrity, indicating deception, 5)  refusal to provide access to "tape" (why?  Attempt to "bluff" with no obvious need to, further indication of deception).

    http://forum.freeadvice.com/debt-collections- ... tes-365606.html
  • 0
    Deadicated
    | 1 reply
    I had a similar situation with my child and Spencer's. I contacted the State Attorney and Prosecutor who both advised me that this this is totally legal in the state of Florida. If the offered deal amount is not paid they can file a $10,000.00 law suit plus lawyer fees and court fees on behalf of their client.To me it seems totally outrageous especially when your child is still in the store with an item less than ten dollars, they have money in their posession to cover the item and they still have to deal with the court and the fines that they impose. The arrangement with these attorneys doesn't even make any of the criminal stuff go away or even drop to a lesser charge.
    • 0
      Darryl replies to Deadicated
      First off, if your states atty was giving you legal advice on a civil matter, HE was violating the law.  Hereis the truth about Palmer Scumbag and associates... Also unsderstand almost everything you read on the net posted to the contrary that is backing up your "need to pay" has been postedby employees of these people that are paid to write them. just one more scare tactic.  

      This is nothing BUT a scam. Go to the link about them I'm posting and read the truth about Palmer Scumbag Reifler and assoc. They are a phishing org that sends out approx. 1.2 million of these letters a year. This will tell you everything from an attorney.   http://prascare.blogspot.ca/
  • 0
    kataylor
    | 3 replies
    MY SON GOT CAUGHT STEALING , YES HE WAS WRONG & HE KNOWS THIS, HOWEVER HE STOLE TWO SMALL CANDY BARS TOGETHER TOTALING 1.05. WE GET A THREATNING LETTER FROM THE LEGAL OFFICE OF PALMER,REIFLER & ASS. SAYING IF HE DOESN'T PAY...225.00 FURTHER ACTION MAY TAKE PLACE. OK, I AM WILLING TO PAY 25.00 BUT 225.00 ????  SERIOUSLY?? THIS IS JUST WRONG. HOW CAN THEY DO THIS?? MY SON WAS 17, SO YES HE KNEW BETTER, HOWEVER HE IS A TEENAGER, & YES HE THOUGHT HE WOULD NOT GET CAUGHT... HONESTLY PEOPLE HAVEN'T WE ALL DONE THINGS IN OUR TEENAGE YEARS THAT WE REGRET ????? THE STATE OF INDIANA, KMART & P.R.& ASS. ARE A TOTAL DISGRACE. WHO MADE THIS LAW? DOES IT REALLY EXIST ???? HOW CAN THEY DO THIS ????  FOR 2 SMALL CANDY BARS??? PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS. IT JUST SEEMS SO UNJUSTICE.
    • 0
      melissa replies to kataylor
      | 1 reply
      My daughter, 15, was caught taking a Kit Kat from Wal Mart and P,R &A sent me a letter demading $250.00!!!!! I agree, with you, this is totally outrageous!!!! She too had money to pay for the candy bar, and Wal Mart got the candybar back. How is this justice?!
      • 0
        brii replies to melissa
        Do not pay them a dime keep reading below someone talks about what they did i'm doing the same
    • 0
      Darryl replies to kataylor
      You don't have to pay... plaease read this, and forward it on, and repost it everywhere you can when you are done so we can shut down the leeches of society like this "law Firm"

      This is nothing BUT a scam. Go to the link about them I'm posting and read the truth about Palmer Scumbag Reifler and assoc. They are a phishing org that sends out approx. 1.2 million of these letters a year. This will tell you everything from an attorney.   http://prascare.blogspot.ca/
  • 0
    sylvia
    Palmer Reifler and Associates are leaving recorded messages on my phone due to a shoplifting charge against my daughter 3 years ago when she was 17 years old. My daughter no longer resides in my house. The caller said that since my daughter was a minor when the incident happened, I am still responsible. Why the hell didn't someone notify me three years ago?

    I am not paying one dime to this law firm.

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