Dispute Process?
Complaint
William Murphy
Country: United States
They got us too, it seems. Situation: Recieved mail from Afni that my wife owed over $300 for account that was opened 12/2003 and closed 3/2004. She's called Cingular who verified that there was an account in her name (and SSN) including our home address. In addition, there was another address of her grandmother in another state.
There is a possibilty that this debt is legitimate, but certainly not ours. When my wife called Cingular, they said they couldn't talk to her about the account because it had been turned over to collections. So my first question is whether we should be allowed any access to the Cingular info. Seems like it will be difficult to proove we DON'T owe without it...
Next, and granted this came from the person at Afni my wife spoke to, if we dispute, we'll need to show how this couldn't have been us. Proving a negative is always hard. I'd like to make them proove that it WAS us.
I'm asking for quidance regarding next steps. My wife is going to call her grandmother to try and get more info. In the meantime I want to get this off my wife's credit report, and resolve this issue.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
There is a possibilty that this debt is legitimate, but certainly not ours. When my wife called Cingular, they said they couldn't talk to her about the account because it had been turned over to collections. So my first question is whether we should be allowed any access to the Cingular info. Seems like it will be difficult to proove we DON'T owe without it...
Next, and granted this came from the person at Afni my wife spoke to, if we dispute, we'll need to show how this couldn't have been us. Proving a negative is always hard. I'd like to make them proove that it WAS us.
I'm asking for quidance regarding next steps. My wife is going to call her grandmother to try and get more info. In the meantime I want to get this off my wife's credit report, and resolve this issue.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Comments
Information from the original creditor is more reliable than what AFNI is likely to provide, so it does make sense to contact the original phone company to determine if any amount is actually due, but in order to most effectively use the provisions of FDCPA or FCRA as protection from attempts to collect unowed "debts", you should still send a letter to AFNI disputing the debt and requesting that they obtain proof that you owe it from the original creditor and send it to you,
Under FDCPA, if you send them a validation request letter within 30 days of receiving their first letter, they must cease all collection activity until they obtain and send that proof to you. If they continue collection activity without first sending you proof that you owe the alleged debt, then you can sue them.
Send your letter certified return receipt requested, so you have proof of when you sent it, and when they got it.
It's fraud!
what if it's more than 30 days after receiving their first letter, and credits were already damaged. this happened to me too. If I dispute it, and ask AFNI to provide proofs, are they required to do so? I need to get my credit score fixed ASAP, do you know what is the quickest way?
thanks
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf
"...
§ 809. Validation of debts
(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing—
(1) the amount of the debt;
(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;
(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;
(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector
in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and
(5) a statement that, upon the consumer’s written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. Collection activities and communications that do not otherwise violate this title may continue during the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor. Any collection activities and communication during the 30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with the disclosure of the consumer’s right to dispute the debt or request the name and address of the original creditor.
(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.
..."
If they damaged your credit after receiving your letter sent within 30 days, that credit reporting would be a violation, as "collection activity".
If you delayed disputing past 30 days, because they deceived you into thinking you couldn't dispute, using deceipt to collect a debt is a violation.
However, they could have reported and damaged your credit long before even sending a letter, or after sending it but before 30 days are up, with no FDCPA penalty.
Note that failing to dispute in 30 days does NOT make the debt owed, nor does it mean you can't dispute it, only that they can assume the debt is valid and try to collect it. It in no way interferes with disputing their reporting of erroneous credit information to a credit bureau.
You deal with erroneous reporting by disputing under FCRA, through the credit reporting agency. They are required to inquire of the data furnisher (AFNI) whether what they are reporting is accurate, and complete their "investigation" within 30 days (45 if you just got your "free annual report").
If AFNI "verifies" information that is not accurate, then they can be held liable for the damage caused by their error, under FCRA.
Furthermore, even if you disputed through the CRA (credit bureau), and they "verified in error", they would try to get out of liability claiming "bona fide error" or whatever other excuse they can pass off on you or a court.
The most effective way to handle them at this point is to dispute the debt with them directly, then after your return receipt indicates they got it, dispute the reporting error through the CRA, to force them to either remove, or become liable for the error. The CRAs do the least they can to actually pass on the dispute, but your direct dispute covers the nature of your dispute, removing the excuses as the two point fingers at each other. You then pursue AFNI for FCRA violations, and any FDCPA violations, through AG complaints, lawsuits, etc.
If you are under time pressure to get this fixed on a debt that is not yours (for example, if you are buying or refinancing a house), find an attorney who has already sued them, and is familiar with FDCPA, FCRA, and similar consumer litigation. You may or may not be able to prevent their damage, but if they cost you, you want to make sure you can sue and recover damages, as with this company, damages are likely.
You are also in the strongest position to get erroneous credit information removed quickly if you contact them through an attorney, since they depend on most consumers floundering around and giving up and paying them.
Both FCRA and FDCPA allow for courts to award attorney fees if you win, so there are attorneys who take such cases on contingency, building up a practice in this area of law.
You can locate attorneys who practice in this area of law in your state through www.naca.net
You might also contact an attorney in another state with expertise in this area who could probably put you in contact with one licensed to practice in your state.
Here are a few you might try:
http://www.lawpoint.com/
http://www.alabamaconsumer.com/
http://www.myfairdebt.com/m/la
http://www.edcombs.com/
Some background:
AFNI routinely "verifies" their faulty negative credit reporting. They often engage in deception in various forms to attempt to divert consumers from disputing. They have many complaints of sending collection letters to the wrong people, who they appear to "locate" by just finding similar names in databases, or even billing earlier or later residents of an address associated with some "account".
In one study through sampling FTC's id theft complaint reports, AFNI was the debt collector with the most complaints of collecting on alleged debts reported to FTC as "id theft" in 2007 and 2008. This is consistent with frequent consumer reports that on calling AFNI, their employees would claim some unknown suspect debt "must be due to id theft", after which they would play up the difficulty of "proving" id theft, and how much easier it was to just pay it.
They are currently being sued by the Minnesota Attorney General, for deceptive collection of "debts" they refused to provide proof of from Minnesota residents.
They are also defendant in a class action lawsuit covering 3 states, for sending deceptive letters implying that consumers had to prove they didn't owe disputed debts, rather than sending the required proof of the debt in response to consumer dispute letters.
The quickest way is to contact the right attorney.
....you know now that i think of it why is it that all these complaints and people saying that they are going to file police reports and get lawyers why dont we here from them again to here what happened .....that is because when they go and check it out what the company is about they then realize that they are a real company and do not visit this site again
A "cease communication" letter does not relieve a debt collector of their obligations to validate, nor to post only accurate information to credit reports.
You can send validation. FDCPA specifically says you must tell the consumer that you will, so that gives you permission to send validation. Just don't ask for payment when you send it if you have received a cease communication letter.
You don't get to choose which parts of the law you get to comply with. You have to comply with all of them.
Just like you don't get to deceptively tell consumers who dispute under FDCPA that they somehow have to provide you information they don't even have on a debt they never heard of.
Nice deceptive talk-off.
As you know, asking for anything on the phone has practically no legal teeth behind it, which is probably why debt collectors prefer to discourage consumers from mailing disputes.
FDCPA requires that your first letter indicate that the consumer should dispute or request validation IN WRITING. It is common, however, for debt collectors to try to convince consumers otherwise when they call.
If you do not send your dispute in writing, the debt collector can continue to collect regardless of whether they obtain and send validation, with no liability. And if you don't send it certified, they can pretend they never got it, with the same practical result.
Nice try.
An attorney at one of the recent FTC roundtable hearings commented on that old BS still being used by a particular debt collector, even after they had sued them for deceptive collection for using the same talk-off.
It is entirely legitimate for consumers to question the validity of your alleged debts when they know they have current accounts in good standing with the same telecom company. Making up BS excuses rather than validating a suspect debt is deceptive.
Your claim to be some unbiased "debtor", who just "researched" them, is disingenuous. Your "talking points" exactly match the arguments and talk-offs reported by many consumers who have called AFNI. In fact, it sounds more like it is from AFNI's training manual, including the "minimum pay" BS.
Look up Hale v. AFNI, a 3 state class action suit making its way through federal court. The judge's decision, in a summary judgement, was that AFNI's letters in response to validation requests were deceptive.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2 ... _sdt=2&as_vis=1
This isn't really the epoch to make such a ridiculous claim, when we have seen many companies do a lot wrong, and still be in business.
It is, however, an argument that has been made by a number of other AFNI employees. Is that in your training manual as well?
You have complaints from consumers who have fully current Verizon accounts, never delinquent, and they report you are giving them this BS, even telling them Verizon's records are "in error".