Debt owed
Complaint
Celia Alanna
Country: United States
I received a phone call today from a collection agency stating that they were from PMG and stating that I owed a large sum of money and they needed to serve me papers to go to court cause I was being sued.
The man claimed his name to be John Mason. Mr. Mason said I owed a debt of $4701.88 for a Capital One credit card and if I can come up with $3601.00 then we can settle out of court. He gave me a case number and even the last four digits of my old Capital One credit card. He was even telling me about other credit cards I had back in 1996 that I no longer have.
Mr. Mason called from (866) 872-6116... possibly California.
Well needless to say I freaked out cause I havent owed on a credit card in almost 3 years. My Husband quickly done some research and found this site with other info from other people with their stories matching mines. The number was also the same as some of these other people that were complaining about harassments from PMG.
Monday I am calling the BBB and reporting PMG. This is just aweful that we innocent people have to be scammed by these criminals!!
The man claimed his name to be John Mason. Mr. Mason said I owed a debt of $4701.88 for a Capital One credit card and if I can come up with $3601.00 then we can settle out of court. He gave me a case number and even the last four digits of my old Capital One credit card. He was even telling me about other credit cards I had back in 1996 that I no longer have.
Mr. Mason called from (866) 872-6116... possibly California.
Well needless to say I freaked out cause I havent owed on a credit card in almost 3 years. My Husband quickly done some research and found this site with other info from other people with their stories matching mines. The number was also the same as some of these other people that were complaining about harassments from PMG.
Monday I am calling the BBB and reporting PMG. This is just aweful that we innocent people have to be scammed by these criminals!!
Comments
https://complaintwire.org/Complaint.aspx/QrqUYTUISgCLBgjMeJtSCQ
Not only do both complaints indicate various illegal practices in violation of state and federal debt collection law (FDCPA, California's Rosenthal Act, etc.), but both complaints indicate an attempt to panic consumers into making payments without exercising their legal right to check whether the alleged debt is valid.
That is often a red flag indicator of an attempt to defraud, since both federal and state laws specifically give consumers the right to dispute alleged debts and request proof that they are valid.
You believe you do not owe any alleged debt connected to this old account.
1) They are claiming over $4000 is owed, when you believe NOTHING is owed. It is highly unlikely that an account, even with a small balance such as from paying it off but forgetting a partial month of interest, would grow to $4000.
2) They are making threats to sue.
3) They are "offering" to accept around $3000.
4) They are reading you old account information. That is an old debt collection tactic to intimidate consumers and convince them the alleged debt is valid. It is a form of talk-off used to counter consumer disputes.
5) If the account actually went delinquent in 1996, assuming it is even valid, in most states it is past SOL, and they cannot legally sue, or threaten to sue.
6) If the account actually went delinquent in 1996, assuming it is even valid, they cannot be still reporting it on credit reports, nor could Capital One.
7) Yet they are reading other account information they claim is from "1996". That could only include history of open positive accounts, as that is all that could be obtained from recent credit reports. Bad debt data would not include information on your other accounts.
8) Claims that this account, or even the other accounts, are from 1996, sound like B.S. Since frauds are crafted, there should be a reason for this.
9) Claims that over $4000 is owed on this account sound like B.S. There should be a reason for this, maybe just that that is how much they think they can get out of you, or that it sounds plausible based on other balances visible on your credit reports.
Looking past the obvious FDCPA violations, what is apparent is a deliberate attempt to intimidate you into paying without any verification of the debt. That indicates an intent to deceive. If they are so ready to sue, then they would also be able to prove you owe it, so why would they not simply do so, rather than substitute threats? Ans why jump to threats on the first contact?
Furthermore, their attempt at intimidation indicates they have pulled one of your credit reports to get it, which not only gave them access to your other old accounts, but also access to the information on the account they now claim you owe.
They have presented NOTHING to indicate the alleged "debt" is valid. In fact, their access to your credit report has given them enough information on your old accounts to pretend you still owe on one of them, such as the past creditor, Capital One, part of the account number, dates, balance history to offer a plausible balance due, etc. They can also get your SSN, DOB, and old address information as well. In effect, they have enough to fabricate an alleged debt claim that looks real, other than traceable proof from the original creditor, which they are working hard to disuade you from asking for.
Both of these cases smell like a criminally fraudulent extortion scam, not just the usual abusive debt collector. Coming from an apparently new business adds to this suspicion, since there is no history to show otherwise. At this point we have NO cases of collecting on proven "legitimate" accounts.
Actions:
1) Send them a letter, certified return receipt requested, disputing the debt, and demanding that they obtain and send proof from the original creditor that you owe it. Do this promptly, as you want to establish that you have demanded validation within the 30 day FDCPA window that blocks all collection activity until they send proof. THIS IS IMPORTANT, since if they continue attempts at collection without sending proof first, you can sue under FDCPA.
2) Pull your credit reports from each of the three credit reporting agencies. You are looking for several things: an inquiry by this company to show it pulled a report from that agency, and the state of the accounts and other information currently on your credit reports, that they may be using in their attempt to con you. That should provide a clue on where they are getting the information to use in this apparent scam. You may find that Capital One shows closed, and in good standing.
Pulling credit reports without permissible purpose is a violation of federal and state laws (FCRA), but also can carry criminal penalties, not just fines. Using such illegally obtained information as part of a fraudulent debt collection racket may constitute criminal id theft as well.
3) Contact Capital One directly. Capital One is generally reported to retain ownership of even defaulted credit card accounts, instead assigning collection to certain debt collectors it routinely uses. They should be able to confirm that your account balance is $0, or even if not, what it is and what debt collector legitimately has it.
Note that their attempt to panic you into paying immediately is also an attempt to block you from taking ANY of the above reasonable actions to investigate this suspect debt. That is why you should immediately do all three.
If you verify the "debt collector" has pulled your credit report, and they specifically identified an old Capital One account visible on it (by last 4 digits), yet Capital One shows no balance due on that specific account, or at least not this balance, and no such account assigned to this "debt collector", you have essentially shown that this "debt collector" is fabricating phony "debts" from illegally pulled credit reports and using it for fraudulent purposes.
If that is the case, you need to get in touch with the FBI and the California Attorney General, as this may be not just a debt collection abuse case, but a criminal id theft and wire fraud ring that has just started operation.
Well, I regained my composure and called him back while I recorded the conversation. He continued to be extremely hostile as I asked all the questions I had about his company. He had originally told me that his name was "John Mason" and that the company that he worked for was called "TAS". On the second phone call I asked him what the "TAS" stood for and he told me that it was "Triton Asset Service". He then proceeded to tell me that he did not want to speak with me any more if I was not going to pay my bills. He also gave me the account number for my supposed delinquent account. He was very very irate with me the second time around.
All this leads me to believe that it was extremely bogus and I feel violated. The guy had a lot of information on me. What scared me the most was that he threatened to have my car repossessed for a supposed 3500 dollar debt.
I had almost the exact same experience with these people. They called my work and threatened to have me served if I didn't settle with them immediately. Spoke w/ John Mason and asked him to send me written proof validating the debt and he refused. He also refused to give me the mailing address for TAS. Has anything happened since last week? Have they continued to call or did they actually serve you? Sorry this happened to you...it's not fun.
https://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-888-250-6658
Note that first post is a shill, which is typical of this type of scam. They know their intended victims may try to look them up, so they typically try to get there first.
"steven
18 Aug 2010
very pleasant company to work with,i had a pending law suit and they helped me get the law suit dropped and cleared me and my wifes name from any judgement. Thanks Peter
Caller: TAS
..."
This may also be a shill. Note the details targetted toward creating a particular perception, indended to suggest "settling". Weigh that against the numerous complaints of bogus alleged debts, and "lawsuits" that never happen.
"...
nancy l
30 Aug 2010
i received a 1033 letter from this company stating the intent to wage garnish my pay check for judgment,i immediately called them and advised them that i just started a new job and i couldn't afford them to levy my paycheck i then filled out a hardship application and was approved for a out of court settlement for almost half of what they sued me for unfortunately i had to pay it in one lump sum but i was able to get help from family.the first guy i spoke to was kind of rude but then i asked for a supervisor who was able to help me get through this.thank you mr brown.
Caller: TAS
..."
Contacting relatives or employers first is also typical of this type of scam. Numerous similar complaints against number on 800notes.
"...
Michele H
31 Aug 2010
I have recieved 2 calls from this number today and I have no idea what the man is talking about. But, the real kicker is that this man Michael Jones called my ex-husband how on earth they got that number we have been divorced for over 20yrs. and used my new married name This is the last straw my ex is a child molester and I want to know what kinda person calls random numbers who aren't part of my live or my families.
Caller: PSA
..."
https://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/8882506658
"TIFFANY
25 Aug 2010
spoke with a girl named stephanie and was really helpful and answered every question i had was able to save me and my husband money on a judgement we had against our property. THANKS GUYS
Caller: TAS
"
Other complaints have indicated that their credit inquiry shows up just before they call, often only the day before.
Hard pulls are normally made in any case where you have applied for credit, authorizing the pull, or by collection agencies, where your authorization was part of the contract with the original creditor that included an extention of credit.
Hard pulls are not just allowed because someone claims "you owe money", nor are they allowed just because "you are being sued". There is case law that in the absense of an extention of credit, there is no permissible purpose as defined by FCRA.
"Soft pulls" would mean it is in the section visible to you, but not disclosed to others who pull your credit report. These are usually creditors that you have a current open account with, who often check your reports every month. It would warp credit scores if all the monthly pulls to review existing accounts were to pull your scores down. These pulls are often also known as "AR" for "account review".
The other type of pull not seen by other creditors are so-called "promotional" or PRM. These are pulls of partial information that the credit reporting agencies sell to possible marketers of "firm offers of credit". The CRA's customer asks for lists of consumers with certain credit characteristics, and the CRA provides name and address only. That's how you get all those credit card offers in the mail. It is not legal to use this mechanism just to buy lists of consumers, where you are not making a "firm offer of credit".
Neither type of pull (AR or PRM) would be appropriate for a legitimate debt collector with a legitimate debt, but either might be used to obtain useful information for identifying targets for a scam.
PRMs would at best provide a list of "leads", screened for certain rainges of credit scores, available or used credit, and location, with no actual credit information, but using this when they are not making a "firm offer of credit", would still be a violation of federal law, FCRA. It would have a good chance of being missed by consumers even with credit monitoring, and other creditors would not see it.
A debt collector would normally cerfify their permissible purpose to the CRA as "debt collection", which would result in a hard pull and damaged scores. They would get complete credit reports with full access to all other accounts and payment history.
This would be easily useable by a scammer to size up your vulnerability to coercion or to select some old account to wrap a fake debt story around. The downside to a scammer is that you would be most likely to become aware of it, receiving notices if you have credit monitoring, or possibly getting credit limit cuts from other creditors who monitor your reports, which also would make you aware of their activity.
The AR pulls would also provide full credit reports, but being soft pulls, would not be visible to other creditors, and might be missed by credit monitoring as well. This would appear to be the best choice for a scam debt collector pulling reports to get information to fake a phony "debt".
Keep in mind that with this type of scam, it's basically "hit and run". They have to convince you to cough up money quickly before you do any research. Tipping you to what they are up to, such as by a notice from a credit monitoring service, would spoil the effect.
Regardless, if they are a phony debt collector, pulling credit reports without permissible purpose as defined by FCRA, and giving the CRA a fake reason for pulling them, they could be prosecuted or subjected to a civil suit for violating FCRA, on top of the fraud charges for the fake "debt".
These types of scams are really rather sloppy, depending on hiding their locations to avoid prosecution or lawsuits. The New York Attorney General has shut down several in the Buffalo area over the last year, resulting in a number of prosecutions and convictions for larceny.
If they are showing up on credit reports, either as account entries or as inquiries, then they had to provide address and contact information to the credit reporting agency to become a customer. The CRA should have taken reasonable precautions to determine that they were who they said they were, which should have included evidence of appropriate licenses for the type of business they claimed to be. That is a trail.
Contact your state Attorney General, or get an attorney and sue them.
You might try www.naca.net
In texas there are no wage garnishment for debts... and just like he said they bought the debt when it was charged off. He can sue me all he wants, but...you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. Oh well...I guess we will see if a processor shows up tomorrow. Keep it posted~
He claims to be a "debt collector"? He doesn't even play one on TV, only on the phone.
The pattern reported by you as well as other complaints is consistent with a fraudulent phony "debt collection" racket. The initial contact, out of the blue, threatening an imminent lawsuit, that you are about to be served (all tactics aimed at evading validation), on an alleged several thousand dollar "debt" (which he will probably next offer to "settle" for around half), all fit the increasingly common profile.
Legitimate debt collectors actually try to collect without suing (many never sue). They generally send the FDCPA required "g" letter (notifying you of your right to dispute the alleged debt) first even if they might actually sue later. Debt collectors threatening lawsuits who are not attorneys usually just set themselves up for lawsuits themselves.
If he doesn't send you the FDCPA required "g" letter within 5 days (allow 10 for U.S. Mail), and he also doesn't "serve" you and hasn't sued you, then you have him on several violations of FDCPA and Texas debt collection laws. You could sue HIM under FDCPA, assuming you can even find him.
You should contact the Texas Attorney General, as Texas has some of the more stringent state laws governing debt collection, including bonding requirements. You want to bet such a fly-by-night "debt collector" (with apparently no address, according to an earlier complaint), is not bonded?
When I asked him to send me something he said they already sent it. i said well fax me something then, he said he could, but all it would say is that they are suing me.
I am sure what is happenig, is we are in the process of buying a house. My credit is crappy, but husbands is good. Now that we are in the middle of the process...all of a sudden MY HUBBY is getting calls on his cell from debt collectors. He doesn't have any outstanding debts. Maybe one or two medical debts that are small, but they aren't even on his report (we have current copies from a couple of weeks ago). So I'm sure debt collectors are sitting back wathing reports waiting to see some sort of activity on them to try and fraud people out of money. We filed bankruptcy 5 years ago. I never recouped, but my husband came out better than he ever has in his life! His credit score is through the roof. And NOW he's getting calls? Bet they are old bankruptcy charge offs. I told him to just delete them.
Jason has never called back. Well...he originally called my mother in law to tell her they were coming to serv eme. I never gave him my number.
So... still waiting for Jason.
Thanks TJ for the help with these posts. Without your help on here, I may never have found the vital informatin I needed to tell him to screw off! hehehe