collection agencies
Complaint
Lawrence Putz
Country: United States
please be advised the the national recovery agency has marked my credit repeor with something i have never heard of or about.i have good credit with nothing against me,now this bill mysteriously has appeared on my experian credit report as potentily negative.
the amount is $32.00,for what i have no clue or idea.
this must be removed immeidltly,for i am financing a home at this time,and will be very harmful obaiting my mortage
the amount is $32.00,for what i have no clue or idea.
this must be removed immeidltly,for i am financing a home at this time,and will be very harmful obaiting my mortage
Comments
NRA has a history of complaints of attempting to collect from people who do not owe the alleged debt, and it appears they just buy this cheap old debt, attempt to collect from any matching name they can find, and post damaging information on credit reports over trivial amounts with little attempt at accuracy.
See other complaints here:
https://complaintwire.org/Complaint.aspx/PZzRKact9wBMZgjLdWEHww
Since you are financing a home, there is a substantial amount of money at stake, even if you were to pay them for some "debt" you don't even owe (which wouldn't even repair your credit scores), either because this negligently reported "erroneous" account might derail your home financing in the current financing market when you can take advantage of low rates, or because it might substantially raise your borrowing costs over the life of the loan due to damage to your credit scores. Damages could amount to thousands on a bogus $32 "debt", but the debt collector might still get off scot free if you aren't careful.
You would be wise to immediately contact an attorney with experience in FDCPA and FCRA litigation to ensure that this matter is quickly resolved, of if it isn't that the negligent party can be held responsible for the resulting damages.
To establish liability under FCRA you must dispute errors through the credit reporting agency (Experian), and the debt collector reporting would have to "verify" the error as accurate. This gives them the opportunity to remove it without any liability, but in many cases, if you haven't also disputed directly with them, they might slip off on some technicality. That, and the fact that they will probably ignore your dispute anyway, are both reasons for working through an attorney who knows this area of law when large damages are at steak.
Your ability to force a quick resolution, either through the debt collector, or through Experian (or other credit reporting agencies they may also be reporting to), may depend critically on whether they take you seriously and respond rapidly. Alternatively, should they fail to do so, your negotiating leverage over damages also depends on whether they expect you to go forward and sue, as most consumers don't know how to follow through.
You should be aware going into this situation that both this debt collector, and the credit reporting agencies, have a history of irresponsible handling of legitimate consumer complaints, although the credit reporting agencies are capable of quickly removing erroneous reporting when they have the proper incentive, and they are also reported to have a department for expediting error correction when mortgages and high potential liability is at steak.
Both FCRA or FDCPA allow for payment of attorney fees should you win.
You might try www.naca.net to find attorneys licensed in your state in this area of law.
Things have been heating up recently.
2009 YTD: 15
2008 total: 4
2007 total: 3
http://dockets.justia.com/search?query=nra+gr ... 6&max-year=2009
Here is one.
http://fairdebtcollection.typepad.com/fair_de ... -group-llc.html
Common thread is that many are for debts not owed by who they are trying to collect from, and that they damage credit over small amounts.
What is also visible is that the companies they buy debt from, such as Columbia House, have a pattern of "resolving" customer billing disputes, and then selling off the supposedly non-existent debt balance years later to this debt collector.
The combination indicates they may actually be using reporting of erroneous accounts, even pursued from the wrong person, to force payment during home purchases or refinancing.
Scammy debt collector with scammy clients.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/national-recovery-agency.aspx
Confirmation from an employee that some of their low value "debts" originate in "music club" teaser offer balances, originating with BMG. Such teaser offers are often used to lure minors into "contracts", and one complaint documents exactly this. Purposely delaying collection by several years would be an effective tactic to attempt to collect these questionable debts from minors who would later become adults.
Complaints consistent with falsifying mailing dates to run out 30 day FDPCA dispute period. Employee misrepresentation that failing to dispute within 30 days of their first collection letter mailing date makes the targetted consumer responsible for the debt. FDCPA 30 day dispute period is based on receipt of first letter, not mailing, and specifically prohibits courts from using failure to dispute as any proof the debt is owed. Indicates company is willing to attempt collection from misidentified consumers, taking advantage of alleged "mail delivery" problems to deceptively claim the debt is owed, and using misrepresentation and deception to collect.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/national-recovery-agency-c166386.html
There appears to be a long term relationship between BMG and NRA Group, so NRA Group would likely know of areas of questionable BMG practices.
Numerous complaints against BMG: failure to credit payments, failure to acknowledge completion of agreed purchases, sending unrequested CDs, unauthorized debits from consumer bank accounts, etc. These practices would generate a steady stream of small "debts" for sale to collection agencies.
http://www.louisianacajun.com/messages.asp
http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/BMG.aspx
Most complaints are either that they are calling for someone with no connection to the number called, or that they are attempting to collect an alleged debt not owed by the consumer.
http://whocalled.us/lookup/8008146580
I checked my credit and there in fact is a "thing" on there from NRA. So they lied about "if I paid it immediatley, it would not effect my credit" I never got a letter either. I called the hospital and informed them that NRA might not be a business they want to be associated with. They were concerned about what I told them and were going to look into it.
I did email my lawyer. (he's a family member so it cost me nothing) and I'll see what happens.
As you picked up, that defensive reply says he gets a lot of consumers questioning the integrity of his company and the legitimacy and accuracy of alleged debts.
You might also report them to the Pennsylvania Attorney General.
They deceptively offered to accept your payment back in April with no reporting to your credit reports. You accepted their offer and paid them. They breached your agreement. They then attempted to get an additional unowed $40 payment out of you.
Note that there are many other complaints against them for attempting to collect on unowed debts, for attempting to collect from the wrong person, and for damaging credit over those unowed debts even when the alleged amount is trivial.
With a complaint record like they have, are you sure the amount you paid them was in fact for a legitimate and accurate bill that you owed to the hospital, and not someone else's bill?
Are you sure that the hospital bill was first correctly submitted to your insurance company, and that any amount you may have owed was correctly adjusted both for insurance contract pricing and for insurance payments made?
By the way, it is not uncommon for medical bills to be paid to debt collectors without the debts being reported against credit files. Medical billing often takes months to work its way through the billing and insurance systems to even determine what remaining co-pay a consumer owes. Sometimes it ends up sent to collection instead of being properly submitted to insurance for payment, resulting in consumers dealing with inflated collection bills. If every error on the part of the many participants in the billing process put a ding on hospital customer credit reports, hospitals and their doctors would have many unhappy customers.
I called an atty and he said that I have a strong case against them. It's a win win situation for me since win or loose I don't have to pay any atty fees.
I checked all my records and to my knowledge they said to me in April that I owed $70. They charged my credit card $100.78. I called the hospital and they said that I owed them $126. Then NRA calls me last week and says that I owe $40. The numbers don't add up. I'm going to call the hospital and get my records from them also.
But like you said, this should have been removed from my credit.
What you describe is known as "deceptive marketing". If the FREE offer is represented in such a fashion that substantial numbers of consumers agree to it unaware that it isn't really free, then the advertising is deceptive.
There is no shortage of companies engaging in deceptive "free" offers. Funny thing about deception however: the more effective it is, the more it is recognized as intentionally deceptive and prosecutable.
What shows up on profiling NRA complaints is a high level of credible reports of NRA attempting collection from the wrong party. This appears to result from lax standards by the music clubs, who don't appear to make any attempt to verify the legitimacy of the "membership application", combined with NRA's collection and locating (or mis-locating) tactics.
The music clubs apparently don't expect their target market to have good credit, or any credit. This leaves them wide open to creating accounts for minors, as jokes or for harassment of other people, under falsified names, or under the names of real people who may even have fraud alerts on their credit reports due to id theft.
Regardless, no doubt NRA will find someone who "owes" the "debt", and that lucky person gets their credit damaged.
You probably wouldn't spend much to collect on a $30 contract balance either, but the level of care you should use in credit reporting is based not on the amount of the alleged debt, but on the potential damage you might do in error. NRA shows a pattern of routinely reporting erroneous small "music club" debts when they haven't even taken care to locate the correct consumer.
Sooner or later you will ding some attorney, or screw up some house purchase with a bogus reported "debt". There really is no excuse for this. It is simply irresponsible and incompetent.
As for hospital billing, you state the usual debt collector line, which can cost a consumer inflated charges, damaged credit, while saving their insurer a lot of money.
Playing by your rules, as you said, "no one is responsible except the patient", even though the hospital, the insurance company, and the collection agency are supposedly all experts and professionals in their respective fields.
The patient always gets "tons of notices", and no one ever transposes a digit on a medical billing code, account number, or amount, mixes up a first name, sends bills to an old patient address, sends claims to an old insurer (just like patients are never misdiagnosed, given the wrong prescription or strength, never operated on the wrong leg, etc).
Alternatively, when the medical provider is "in-network", they are under contract with the insurer, have agreed to a discounted payment schedule, and have a direct obligation to submit patient claims to the insurer in a timely fashion. No arguments about "courtesy" or "responsibility" relieve the hospital of it's contractual obligation with respect to the insurer, and should they fail to submit the claim properly and timely, they may find that under the insurance contract, neither the patient or the insurer have any obligation to pay them, effectively cancelling the "debt". Such terms are common practice in contracts between insurers and medical providers.
(Billing for amounts not allowed by insurance or Medicare may not only be erroneous, but may also be prosecuted as medical billing fraud.)
As for responsibilities in handling medical claims, the hospital and the insurer know far more about the details of medical billing than most patients ever will, and they still screw up frequently. What you should know as a patient is to insist on names of all billing entities should you be hospitalized, copies of fully itemized bills from all parties, and follow up to ensure claims are submitted. If you get hospitalized, you could be getting bills from the hospital, a lab, an emergency physician billing group, several specialist billing groups, etc, and they can all screw up.
Given this track record, although debt collectors like to assume that records from creditors are accurate, in medical billing this assumption is not only likely to be false, but embarassingly so, and if medical providers wish to maintain good customer relations, they should choose their debt collection partners carefully.
When errors are brought to their attention, both medical providers and insurers generally act in accordance with their contractual obligations.
As a debt collector, although most of your accounts may be patients that have problems paying, many of the accounts you deal with are also likely to result from errors. They send you the leftovers, after the billing that went smoothly was already paid.
As a debt collector, do you have the integrity to recognize a billing error and send it back to the hospital and insurer for payment in accordance with their contract?
Or do you just push for payment of an erroneous account, knowing that your own account will be better off that way?
Do you have the integrity to ensure that hospital and insurer errors do not damage the credit of hospital customers?
NCCI gave up its field agent program years ago, they now delegated the job to independent contract companies also know as a regional reps, that actually run these field chases illegally (more on this later)
First: What you need to take into consideration before you work for "any" field chase company is your life is on the line every time you knock on a door, you pay for your own gas and maintenance for your vehicle, and there is no steady pay. Its literally feast or famine, the business is very up and down. You get tons of assignments one week and get a slow trickle the next. Its hard to financially plan for anything.
Second: NCCI did pay $25 per chase in the past, now they delegate the job to these contract companies and these companies are required by NCCI to pay you only $15 per chase, the contract companies get to keep $10 per chase. NOW WAIT A MINUTE... The contract companies keep 40% of the pay to simply delegate the work, and read the reports, yet "you" the field agent takes all of the risks... Doesnt seem very fair... Keep in mind NCCI charges the client at least $50 - $150 per field chase and you get $15 to get shot at... NCCI will tell you they dont, however I have had clients tell me what NCCI bills them for there field chases.
Third: The purpose of these contract companies was to create localized supervision, NCCI claimed they could no longer supervise these Field Agents from California it was becoming to daunting of a task, however the contract companies in general over see 3 - 4 states. Let me tell you, if you cant supervise Field Agents in Kansas from California you cant supervise Field Agents that are two states away any better.
Four: Field Agents dont care about the work they receive from NCCI. Companies like Sand Castle and Guardian pay $25 per chase and pay for rechases (NCCI does not pay for rechases, your expected to do this for FREE). NCCI knows as much as they hate to admit it, Field Agents work for multiple companies. Sooooo here is the problem, and what is leading to the demise of the once almighty field chasing company known as NCCI. IF YOU have companies you contract with that pay 40% more than NCCI, you are going to do quality work for the competitors, not for NCCI... DUH!
Five: No quality = no clients, no clients = no NCCI... Pretty simple huh? Now that NCCI has shot them selves in the foot, they have caused hundreds if not thousands of agents nationwide to stop caring about them. Clients are leaving right and left, and field agents revolve through the doors of these regional contact companies right and left.
Six: Naughty... Naughty... What the clients have not figured out yet (those who are still left) is NCCI is somewhat operating illegally. They are obtaining business from clients and giving the business to these independent contract companies to service. In itself that doesnt sound bad, but what the clients dont know is, these independent contract companies are not licensed collection agencies in the states they service. Not only is that a state violation its a federal violation. (Please note, there are few states that do not require a collection license). NCCI trys to pass its self as an umbrella for these contract companies to the client, but the umbrella does smoke and mirrors...
Seven: To bad NCCI you had a great thing at one point, you got greedy and now you to are going to have to face the consequences. You have independent contract companies that are going financially belly up, field agents that dont care about you or your clients.
Based on the law, they cannot contact you at your place of business. They are only legally able to contact you at your home; you can also send a stop and desist letter via certified mail.
Record their conversation, when you speak to them if you do, many of them have no clue of the law and make drastic mistake threatening people. They can't make any statements in which they can destroy your credit, call your family, call your work and or tell everybody that you have debts and you do not pay, this is protected by the law. IN this case now you have the upper hand, as now they open the door for a lawsuit, almost any attorney will take this type of cases on contingency. Is an infringement of your rights and punish by law. This people use scare tactics to scare people and even collect many times the same debts that have been paid previously.
The reality nothing that they can do, if you do not or can't pay, they must take you to court and get a judgment against you, then they need to be able to collect.
You want to get even, call then day in and day out, to their numbers use redial, and have anybody that you know do the same, do it day in and day out, that will shut down their PBX system, if they do it to you do it to them.
Yes annoying, but effective if hundreds of people do the same and saturate their phone lines.
Remember their 800 are free to you, they pay for it, call put them on hold and have your friend do the same, do this every day as much as you can. IF they have the right to harass you, you have the right to do the same to them. They called you first! Block your number if that makes you feel more comfortable. You are not subject to the same laws , do not talk to them, that is what they want, if you call back and talk to them they are verifying that you are acknowledging the debt regardless of the purpose of the call as they will not believe you are not the right person.
Here are some of the biggest scan bags in the industry, and believe me they are all scan bags at the end. They count on you to be afraid of them.
RGS Financial
http://www.rgsfinancial.com/
P.O. Box 852039
Richardson, TX 75085-2039
RGS Financial, Inc.
1700 Jay-Ell Drive
Suite 200
Richardson, TX 75081
Call their 800 numbers is free to you but not to them.
They use many spoof numbers if any, as many times they use no caller ID on purpose but they leave you a number to call. Always keep the recording particularly if they are menacing and report does to your police local department as now you have a legal record.
Spoof Number used: 1310-953-3485
Viking Collection Service, Inc.
Minnesota
7500 Office Ridge Circle, Suite 100
Eden Prairie, MN 55344Arizona
2075 West Pinnacle Peak Road, Suite 110
Phoenix, Arizona 85027 Spoof number use caller id Block. One of their numbers is 1800-287-5802
Primary Financial Services also uses Collection agency services to mask there illegal practices (http://www.collectionagencyservices.net/)
http://www.primaryfinancial.com/ (Their web site is been down for long time to be able to cover their illegal practices)
3115 N 3rd Ave Ste 112
Phoenix, AZ 85013
(602) 279-1000
1800-661-0086
If you want to negotiate a settlement call your original lender directly, do not negotiate with this scan bags, they are on commissions or percentages based. Many banks and lender will negotiate up to 80 % of the debts, make sure they do not report it to the IRS if not they can make you pay the taxes on the remaining amount, and make sure they clean your credit, get it in writing first.
Don't get mad get even.
People which do block the caller ID and or use Spoof numbers always have something to hide, that is the only reason they will use a Spoof number (Fake number / Voip Number / Or PBX number whit no actual connection only rings and then dies) Report them to the Authorities, this business practices are illegal and punish by law: if they use spoof numbers, Obscene and rude language, threats, harassment, all this are felonies and punish by law. Report them to your Local Telecom provider, your local District attorney, the local police department, your local senator, record the conversation and keep any and all voice mail left, don't be afraid, they can do absolutely nothing to you till they take you to court if you owe them any money, is futile to argue with ignorant people.
THIS IS AMERICA,
More info
They don't get to choose whether they grant a dispute. They have to follow the law, specifically FDCPA.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf
They claim that you can't dispute it just because you didn't receive it in less than 30 days is false and deceptive, and therefore a violation of FDCPA. FDCPA does not say that anywhere.
What it says is that their initial notice to you must say this:
"...
(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;
(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and
(5) a statement that, upon the consumer’s written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. Collection activities and communications that do not otherwise violate this title may continue during the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor. Any collection activities and communication during the 30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with the disclosure of the consumer’s right to dispute the debt or request the name and address of the original creditor.
(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.
..."
THe 30 day FDCPA validation request period does not begin when they send it, but when your RECEIVE it. They may assume you have received it, say, 5 days after you mailed it, but that assumption is rebuttable, as in your case you couldn't have received it until returning from your trip.
Note that you have 30 days from YOUR RECEIPT of their letter, and if you were out of the country, you obviously didn't receive it until you got back.
They are using a deceptive misrepresentation of FDCPA in an attempt to convince you to pay a debt you may not even owe.
The dispute provisions in FDCPA do not make an alleged debt owed just because you fail to dispute, or fail to dispute in a timely fashion. In fact, it specifically states that no court can construe a failure to dispute as an admission of liability.
NOTHING says you can't dispute even after 30 days. NOTHING says you owe it if you don't dispute, only that they can assume you do. It just says they can continue to attempt to collect, whereas if you request validation within 30 days of receiving their notice, they must cease collection activity until they send you proof.
In fact, you can dispute at any time, regardless of whether 30 days has passed, and they must notify anyone they disclose the alleged debt to, including credit reporting agencies, that you dispute it.
If they are putting erroneous collection account information on your credit reports, you can also dispute that, through the credit reporting agencies, and if they erroneously "verify", you can sue them for their error.
Send them a letter, certified return receipt requested, notifying them that you dispute this debt and are requesting validation. Indicate in your letter that you received their letter on <nn/nn/nnnn>, on returning from a trip out of the country. Make sure you mail this timely, so your certified mailing date is within 30 days of the date you returned, but regardless, get it in the mail.
If they want to ignore your provably timely validation request, they run the risk you will sue. Do they feel lucky?
If you have any problems, file a complaint with your state Attorney General for their violations of FDCPA, for deceptively telling you that you couldn't dispute and request validation.
Your certified receipt proves when you mailed your letter, your green card or USPS website confirmation shows when they got it, and your airline tickets, and passport stamps, or credit card charges prove when you left the country and when you got back.
If push comes to shove, you can prove your dispute is timely, and your inclusion of your letter receipt date in your dispute refutes their presumption that 30 days has passed, and puts them on notice that they must comply.
If they fail to cease collection until they send proof, given notice as above, you sue them. It doesn't matter what they think or tell you. All that matters is what a judge makes of it.
http://www.bankruptcydischargesettlement.com/index.php3
Apparently, Experien went through a period when it didn't feel like posting bankruptcies.