scam/fraud
Complaint
Harper23
Country: United States
Someone called from a restricted number this morning and said he was calling in reference to a complaint filed against me and that I needed to call the agency who filed with him. Left the numer: 855-849-2226. I called back. The woman asked what my call was regarding. I said, "I don't know. I got a cryptic VM regarding a complaint filed against me." She sent me to someone who called himself Michael Wells. This man told me that I was about to be served papers and that I was being sued. I was terrified as I have been dealing with old debt and trying to get my credit problems resolved. He then said that he had to call the sheriff and make sure I hadn't already been served before he could talk to me. He came immediately back (that was fast!? And a red flag). He said, "thanks for being honest. You haven't been served yet. I can keep them from serving you if the attoorney approves it". So he left for another minute or so and said, "they'll take a settlement of the regular debt if you can pay 1500 today." I said no way; I'm a single mom on a fixed income. He said, "let me see if I can get a hardship reduction". Goes away for another minute. Comes back and says they can accept 500.00 to erase the debt in full. Take it off my credit report, etc. This is a real debt. However, I ws pretty sure they charged it off when I was working on old debts. So I gave him my prepaid (but empty) card number in case it was legit. He said he'd run it for the first 200 on Monday. Then I hung up and did some research. I was told that I should get a debt validation letter before any money changes hands. So I sent an email in response to his email (asking me to send a hard copy with my signature giving them permission to run my card for 500 with 2 payments due by June 28th). I asked for a letter of validation. He called and said that the account had already been filed in court so it would take up to 45 days to get that letter. I said, "I would be a fool to just hand you 500 cash because you tell me to." Then he seemed to get a little mad (he had been pretty nice up to this point). He told me I just wasn't getting it, that my settlement didn't affect him in any way and that he was just going to forget the settlement and I could take my chances in front of a judge. That he had been trained to, "not offer deals to anyone who is wary of them". I said, "I'm simply asking questions? This seems pretty unprofessional". He was mad. So I told him to calm down. I said, "we have a deal in place, I'll call the original creditor. I'd be senseless not to. It's not personal. I don't know you." Then he said, "I won't move forward until I hear from you. That has to be by Monday." I then went home and called the sheriff's office and the courthouse. Nothing at all has been filed against me. I was told by the man who works at the courthouse that there is never a time when a debt collector can legally take money from you without first getting you the legal debt validation form first (if you request it). He told me the email was enough but I read several complaints about him specifically and other places just like it with numbers that are all connected. Anyone could make that email up with a bit of research. The address is in Riverside, CA but the address seems to be a dentist and a UPS store in a strip mall. This guy said that they were going to put a lien against my car, garnish me and possibly file criminal charges if I didn't reply. They prey on people who have made mistakes. I just want to and am trying to legitamately fix mine. Don't fall for this. Get proof. Do your research. This is just sad and I am creeped out. What's worse is that I was so excited to take care of it that I almost gave them the money. They had my address (newish)! Awful.
Comments
Google "Corona Scam" to find the whole story.
FTC raided the Corona Scam's various offices in and around Corona CA (in Riverside County) back in October 2011, seizing their assets for eventual compensation back to victims. The case is still taking its slow journey through the federal district court, and the court appointed Receiver is still trying to track down the varous assets that were squirelled away (reportedly "Brazilian bonds" and "gold coins").
These guys get money through making illegal threats, to evade proving there is any actual debt. They commonly even add on made up "court fees" or "attorney fees" if they can (with not actual lawsuit or court costs). There's even a name for this. It's called "spiff money", and these crooked "debt collectors" are proud of how much made up "fees" they can con.
If a debt collector won't send you an FDCPA "g" letter, required to be mailed within 5 days of first contact, and identifying the alleged debt while notifying you of your right to dispute and request proof, then you are dealing with illegal collection in violation of FDCPA, and possibly outright fraud.
File complaints with FTC.
'Enough' for what? In the US, email is not a legitimate form of legal communication. In fact, the only country that I know of where electronic transmission is valid for legal documents is New Zealand and at that, only through Facebook.
In the US, even the initial demand letter cannot be legitimately sent through email, let alone debt validation documents or subpoenas. What sort of yahoo is this guy?
But,the important thing is that you know what you are dealing with. I would not make any deals with him or any other 3rd party collector. Never. I would deal, only, with the original creditor. And, I'd also talk to an attorney.
Although you could probably show that an email communications is an FDCPA "communications" that triggers the "g" letter requirement, just as a phone call would, I doubt that judges would interpret the FDCPA's requirement to send a "letter" as referring to anything but US Mail. And posting on a public Facebook page, or even one viewable by one other person, would run smack into the FDCPA prohibition of disclosure to third parties.
The court documents in the Corona Scam case documented numerous cases where they called and threatened people who weren't even connected to the alleged debt, even got money out of them, just based on threats alone. In fact, the scripts recovered by investigators in the raids documented exactly how they did exactly that, first calling employers or relatives (or who they thought were relatives) rather than the targeted victim, even when they already had the number of the target.
Lack of sending an FDCPA required "g" letter was one of the things FTC nailed them on. It's a clear FDCPA violation, and the numerous consumer reports of getting some emailed "settlement letter" instead show that they were trying to pass off some email with unverifiable information in place of both the "g" letter and FDCPA required validation.
FTC found "g" letters were not sent, and NOTHING was ever validated.
The deliberate leaving out of mailing a "g" letter was a critical deceptive component in warping the normal legal collection process to defraud consumers. They knew that tipping off unsophisticated consumers that they had a right to demand proof would crimp their ability to deceive and defraud.
From the point of view of crafting an effective deception, shifting from the legal requirement to something that might sound similar if you don't know the law is actually more effective than just telling victims they didn't have to send any letter. Even unsophisticated consumer might have heard that there was some notification process, but many wouldn't know what the actual legal requirement is.
Sending an email "settlement letter" also fits the common fraud sleight of hand of switching one thing for another, but with "plausible deniability" that it was either a "mistake", or that wasn't the "g" letter, which was sent "45 days ago". No "g" letter ever sent, but how do you prove that? That line also showed up in consumer complaints.
Avoiding US Mail, and disclosing addresses, even just mail drops, appears to also be one of the goals of prefering email, both to avoid mail fraud, complicate locating them, and attempt to limit the traceability of potential evidence.
Major fraud investigations typically involve assistance by the US Postal Inspector, as collecting of evidence of the fraud through mail, either at the fraud site or the mail drop sites, is a major part of proving the organization was set up with the intent to defraud consumers. The FTC raids were coordinated with raids on the various Corona area mail drops, and the court appointed Receiver took over control of all mail communications with the shut down scam.
As I understand it, this is the problem here in the US. We all LIE when it comes to registering for email accounts. (re: Leslie Stahl , 60 Minutes)
And the New Zealand case involved a bit more than anonymous comments: A debt collector was trying to serve a summons to a person who had no 'brick-and-hammer' address. The judge in New Zealand allowed it.
That's the story. Period.
Aside: Still trying to discourage the average consumer from working the FDCPA to its fullest, I see.
Maybe debt collectors are more honest in New Zealand, but if that was applied here, the courts would be swamped with an avalanche of fraudulent service affidavits. Oh that's right, they already are.
Lying isn't illegal, unless it is. Legal position, not a moral one. You would be a fool in modern society to reveal your whole life to total strangers, accurately or not. Being a fool is not a virtue.
If you work in debt collection, lying isn't illegal unless you get caught, and then it's just a "mistake", so it's never illegal. And if the company gets caught, well, those were just "bad apples" so we fired them. Made us a ton of money while they were here, but they're "fired", at least till the reporters are gone.
And if you are a cop, and a lie gets someone to confess, well, that's all ok too. If you pressured them enough to confess, and they were innocent, well, that was their own fault. Damn PCR started messing that up.
Sociopathic behavior is normal.
Human societies are really twisted.
http://memeburn.com/2011/06/you-just-got-served%E2%80%A6via-facebook/
So have the Indian swindlers caught on to this?
Are they spamming Facebook with phony "payday loan lawsuit" summonses?
If they did, how would that affect the legitimacy of real summonses served by Facebook, if people were inundated with fraudulent ones?
Most of the problems in our debt collection cases involve robosigned affidavits, no documentation, sewer service, and default judgements. With maybe 80% of local lawsuits being for debt collection, the courts become an institution for enforcing fraudulently obtained default judgements.
Here's a case for you:
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/01/08/s ... s-lawsuit-scam/