threatening letter

ComplaintsCollection AgenciesPalmer Reifler and Assoc.

Complaint

0
C
Country: United States
My daughter was 17 years old and she made a mistake in a clothing store, she returned the top. Later I got a letter from Palmer Reifler and Associates for a settlement of $150. I did not do any research about this law firm and agreed to pay in three payment. First payment, I sent $50 by Moneygram, the other two checks I mailed to the office. Today, I received a message at my work, claiming that I still owe them another $285. I called them, I said I paid total $150 and I had the receipt and cancelled checks. A lady told me that my last check was received one day late on the payment. She demanded $285 by this Saturday.They threatened me again.  NEED HELP!!

Comments

  • 0
    Sarah C.
    | 3 replies
    tj is the expert here, but he can't reply to original posts at the moment.  Maybe he'll reply to my post.
    Check these out: http://prascare.blogspot.com/
    http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/palmer--rei ... rs---23234.html
    https://complaintwire.org/complaint/95wBAAAAAAA/palmer-reifler-assoc
    http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2008/07/the_two_master_criminals.php
    They can't threaten you.  It's illegal.  It's always a good idea to sent your payments by certified mail, return requested.
    Good luck to you.
    Any thoughts, tj?
    • 0
      tj replies to Sarah C.
      | 2 replies
      They have been building a history of similar complaints.

      You can find a WSJ article on them several years ago, and a report from someone laid off by Home Depot that they tried to shakedown after he filed for unemployment.

      Mostly they appear to be shaking down parents over minor shoplifting by kids.  They are a letter mill, looking for easy money to split with the store. They spout a good line, but not from much of a moral high ground.  One of their attorneys might even come around here, and demonstrate his talents with the English language.

      Offer one "settlement" and mysteriously the last payment made "doesn't arrive on time", so they "void the settlement agreement", keep the money, then make a new threat demanding a larger amount.

      It cost them nothing, once they got your first payments, to turn around and demand more.  Find an excuse, or make up one.  How're you going to prove it, when you never saw it coming?

      It's "spiff money".


      Bottom line in any negotiation is if you can't trust the other party in a proposed contract, there is not much point in agreeing to anything, since you aren't likely to get what you think you are paying for.  All you bought is a right to sue, and you know like with any con, they already covered their butt.

      They get around the FDCPA prohibitions against deceptive collection, abuse and harassment, and illegal threats, by claiming they are a "law firm negotiating a settlement agreement", not collecting a debt.  The secret is that whether you pay them or not has no effect on any prosecution, and that despite millions of such letters they send out, they may have only sued several times, in their home state of Florida.

      You would be better off keeping your money.

      Or use it instead to pay an attorney to write a letter, indicating that he is representing you in the matter.

      Regardless of FDPCA, which they claim doesn't apply to them, then by bar rules, they must only communicate with your attorney, and no longer contact you directly. That makes it rather hard to threaten and deceive you by implication, so it's not worth the trouble anymore.

      Reports are they move on to easier pickings.


      They are about as fun to analyze from a game theory perspective as the shakedown debt collectors.
      • 0
        tj replies to tj
        | 1 reply
        So she demanded "$285 by Saturday".

        Or what?

        Bet she was careful to leave that part out, or word it like "the store could choose to do...".
        Learn to recognize Weazel English.
        • 0
          tj replies to tj
          By the way, you don't "owe" $285.

          Demanding $285 as an offer to settle, and telling you that you "owe" it are two different things.

          If she told you that you "owe" it, then they (or at least she), are now a debt collector again, collecting this "debt" rather than "negotiating a settlement".

          Your counterposition might be that they just renegged on the "settlement agreement", this supposedly "late" payment is made up because they sat on their mail to fabricate it, and that they are in breach of contract for now demanding $285.  You want treble damages (3x$150) plus your attorney fees, and FDPCA statutory $1000 penalty.

          Or drive a wedge between the b*tch and the company, by suing her personally.
          She is the one that stepped into the role of "debt collector", and she is separately liable for FPDA violations even if her employer maintains they are not.
          How badly does her employer really want to waste money defending a federal FDPCA lawsuit that potentially might decide that they are a "debt collector", a position they have been working carefully to avoid?  Cheaper to toss her under the bus.

          Welcome to the House of Games.

          Why don't you contact an attorney?
          Many will review your case for free.
          You might try www.naca.net to find a consumer attorney in your state.
  • 0
    Sarah C.
    | 1 reply
    What, exactly, was there to settle?  If your daughter returned the item, the store didn't suffer any losses.  Did the store sue you?
    • 0
      tj replies to Sarah C.
      They knew they had no case worth suing.  It's pretty weak when you didn't even catch anyone stealing, and someone shows up actually returning something taken by mistake.  You might get a judge who wants to know why you are wasting the court's time.

      It's not worth much in other cases either, which is why they use a letter mill instead.

      Honesty makes no difference to the letter mill, since they exist to hide behind their lack of knowledge of "facts".

      You now know what type of business you were dealing with, so take your business elsewhere.
      Advise your friends to do the same, since the business can't be trusted.
  • 0
    Sarah C.
    | 3 replies
    So, the way I understand it is that C, the author of the original complaint here, didn't owe the $150 to begin with, much less the $285.
    • 0
      tj replies to Sarah C.
      | 2 replies
      If no court has awarded a judgement, then there is no actual debt.

      This is not some product or service that someone has bought and not paid for.

      It's all framed as a "settlement" to buy them off from supposedly suing under state laws that allow stores to sue in cases of shoplifting, to recover "damages" attributed to their costs of risk control.

      Any obligation is alleged by implication and careful choice of words, as they carefully try to maintain that they are a "law firm negotiating a settlement" rather than a "debt collector". The amounts they toss out appear to be pulled out of thin air, based on the nuisance or scare value of the implied threat.

      Doesn't sound like the minimum wage drones are really that careful about avoiding the FDCPA minefield.  They are depending on conning suckers.  Pay them off just to make them go away, but as you would expect, they just come back for more.

      That classifies them behaviorally as predatory and sociopathic.
      • 0
        tj replies to tj
        | 1 reply
        They have more in common with habitual shoplifters than the people they threaten.
        • 0
          tj replies to tj
          The mechanics of their scheme actually parallels the magazine subscription bait-and-switch rackets.
  • 0
    Web
    Want to have some real fun, have the court acd or dismiss the case, then sue the security guard for illegal detainment. Home Depot actually pays their security a bonus to trump up bogus charges against people, and then asked if they have tape of the incident; in most cases they do not.
    If by some chance you get a collection notice, demand they bring in a tape of the alleged theft, and ask that they bring in the security person. Once you get the security person in court, get an information subpena and make the SOB Sweat. In one case I know of the security guard was an NYPD cop that was dirty, and cut a deal, didn't take long to bury him and home depot.  This is a large scam netting millions from scared people, and supported by the Crocked State of Florida.
  • 0
    Nano
    It's been about 4 months since I received the last demand letter that was stated Palmer and Reifler were "supposedly" supposed to take civil action against me and "notify" the sheriff... they never did. They demanded an outrageous amount of $800 which came from an initial amount of $200. Can I smell scam anywhere?
  • 0
    Nano
    I am also writing a complaint to the Florida Bar regarding this incident. Hopefully the Florida Bar will respond to this and give Palmer and Reifler their negative feedback.
  • 0
    Dont Be A PRA Dupe
    Palmer Reifler SCAM in a nut shell
    PRA are sleazy bottom feeder lawyers who've created a business based on extortion.
    Their practices are  marginally legal. Their ethics are despicable.
    Don't pay, you owe nothing.  If you pay it will be worse for you. You will be followed in retail stores
    for the rest of your life. This information will follow you into job interviews.  Whatever you do, DONT PAY! The calls &letters will go away. Block them,  get a new phone & forget about it.

    PRA are SO much bigger than just shoplifting.  They have never sued a single person,  they don't have to
    because dupes like us send them money!

    Retailers LOVE PRA because its free revenue for them. They provide PRA with names.
    PRA control the curriculum of DOC theft classes.

    The reason this information is not all over the internet is because PRA trolls scour the internet &
    corrupt all the files they don't like.   PRA's  golden goose is worth hundreds of millions.

    Be smart, don't make another stupid expensive mistake.

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