Collection of Non Payment
Complaint
Perez
Country: United States
WE received a call for senior citizen at this residents staing she owes money for a magizine subscription. But she refuzed to talk to me and wanted that subject she call. She wanted a credit card or Bank Car to debit her card, which she does not have. So she told them they only can get Money Orders from here. ( That what she pays for Items ) and they gave her an address P.O. Box 67015, Harrisburg, PA 17106. To send money order to.
Comments
I have asked for all of this to be sent to me in writing - the response from someone who called himself "Chris Owen" and said he was a supervisor - "We did not send via mail, we did not leave a phone message, because we were afraid someone in the family may open the mail or over hear the phone conversation." My guess would be that Chris Owen and the National Recovery Agency have never heard of registered mail, or a phone message simply requesting a return call.
My "delinquent account" is supposedly with the Hamilton Collection from whom I have never placed an order, but did mail a card requesting a notification when this "new item" became available. Since the item in question indicated that I might be a grandmother, this possibly flagged me be a senior citizen!
NRA Group shows up with many similar complaints of fraudulent collection in connection with old BMG/Columbia House "accounts", often based on "termination fees". They also show up prominantly in collection shakedown complaints against people who were never BMG/Columbia House customers. Collectables and music clubs reach similar unsophisticated markets, who might both plausibly be subject to "order cramming".
So how does an inquiry about when a product is available show up in an accounting system as an alleged "delinquent account", with no product received, and no contact by the original alleged creditor? Do they sell via negative option marketing, or do you have to specifically order? Did you join a "club", to get some "discount"?
Or maybe it never was an account with a balance, just customer name and address information.
Is there some mechanism through which someone might have means and motive to fabricate a fake "order" then sell the "account" off as "delinquent"? Or maybe they went through some reorg or bankruptcy, and maybe sold off customer information that was then fraudulently treated by this collection agency as "accounts receivable". Or do they transfer their account information wholesale to NRA Group, and trust NRA Group to paw through it and only dunn actual delinquent accounts? (Good luck with that, given their record of fraudulent collection)
1) No order placed, only an inquiry card, which could be sent by anyone.
2) No payment information provided, consistent with no intent to order.
3) No product received, consistent with no order processed.
4) No invoice received, consistent with no order processed.
5) No delinquent account statement receive at the time of the alleged "order", consistent with no order processed.
6) Yet, supposedly, NRA Group claims there is an amount due.
7) NRA Group has a history of complaints of claiming amounts are due, when they are not, indicating the organizational capability to engage in deception..
8) NRA Group has a history of complaints of deception and stonewalling when alleged "debts" are disputed, consistent with collection of "accounts" they know are not due, again indicating the capability to engage in deception.
That is "+8" on the evidence pointing toward deception by the debt collector.
The collected evidence, limited as it is, includes the historical reported capability of this debt collector to fabricate and collect on fabricated accounts, and suggests the possibility of the fabrication of this particular "account" by the debt collector.
Why don't you call Hamilton Collection and ask them what this phony bill is about?
It's either in their system, or it's not.
If there is no order in their system, then you may have caught the debt collector fabricating fake "accounts".
Alternatively, they may be collecting on someone else's "account", and either they are dunning you by mistake (consistent with many complaints involving old BMG/Columbia House collection accounts), or in collecting for Hamilton Collection, they have access to Hamilton's customer information, and they mine it for "skip-tracing", again billing you and other Hamilton customers "in error".
In addition, send the debt collector a dispute and validation notice, mailed certified return receipt requested, demanding proof you owe it. Watch out for deceptive responses, such as replies on their own letterhead just saying you owe this amount.
Check your credit reports, as NRA Group has a habit of damaging credit even when (especially when) they bill "in error".
If they fail to resolve the matter,. you may wish to contact a consumer attorney, regardless of the amount. FCRA and FDCPA allow you to sue for damages, and also allow courts to award attorney fees, so you can find attorneys who take these cases on contingency. You might try www.naca.net to find a consumer attorney in your state.
All of which would lead you to believe that the allegation of a "debt" is erroneous.
"The caller commented that my "payment" dated back to 2006! They further stated that my account had been with two prior collection agencies. "
Both statements are irrelevant to whether the "debt" is legitimate. They are, however, an attempt to intimidate you, and are intended to deceptively imply that you either have no right to dispute a "debt" you believe is bogus, or that you have to disprove this bogus "debt" and if it's that old the "records" may no longer be around.
Those statements are deliberately aimed at setting you up to coerce you into paying a debt you don't owe.
One focus of their collection tactics has always been using credit damage to coerce payment, even when it's not owed. Since FCRA only allows credit reporting of negative information for at most 7.5 years, claiming this was "delinquent" in 2006 allows them to hold the threat of credit damage over your head for another year.
Check your credit reports, and see if the original creditor reports anything, or if NRA Group is reporting this. My guess, based on the pattern of other complaints, is that they've already trashed your credit.
Since when does a debt collector not use the US Mail, especially when FDCPA requires mailing of "g" notices?
Only 2 reasons come to mind:
1) They are deliberately trying to collect before notifying consumers of their dispute rights as required by FDCPA, and they want the opportunity to take a shot at a deceptive talk-off before the target knows how to dispute.
2) They know the bills would be fraudulent and are avoiding mail fraud complaints (never stopped any other debt collector).
(1) is consistent with not leaving a message, as that also would tip off the consumer to check into them before calling back. They want first contact to be with one of their live debt collectors, and they DON'T want some "family member" becoming aware of the collection attempt until they have already had the opportunity to coerce a payment. That supervisor response suggests that they know that they will get the best collection result by this tactic, giving the consumer no advance opportunity to find out what they are up to, which also suggests they know many of these "debts" are bogus.
They are real easy to find in consumer complaints, and it is real easy to see from those complaints what they are up to.
Phone calls just let them lie.
Limit their communications to mail.
They use a spoofing device to send out fake phone numbers that show up on your caller ID (the same thing PRA does) but I register my complaint with the National Do Not Call registry every time they call using their 1-800 number which is 1-800-360-4319 since it does you no good filing whatever fake number shows up on your caller ID.
They both have their own styles of deceptive collection.
PRA has complaints of attempting to tag people with unowed "debt" by name matching.
Their complaints suggest they are blindly dunning people on old out of statute debts, with little attempt spent to locate the correct person, while there are indications they are studying how to exploit jurisdictional variations to sue on OOS debt.
NRA group has complaints of name match tagging, as well as attempting to do so by address matching as well. They often try to collect on old Columbia House/BMG accounts, many of which appear to have had fraudulent charges, trumped up "termination fees", or involved shipment of unordered merchandise, due to order cramming under the pretext of "negative option marketing".
Trying to con you to pay some unowed "debt" based only on a match to a P.O. Box is easily within the scope of NRA's "error" capability. If you check your credit reports, you will probably find they posted a "collection" account as well, as they routinely do so even with little basis for believing they have billed the correct person.
They are both looking for easy money, using "chicken billing". If you have problems with either, best advice is to get an attorney and sue them. Anything short of that they will probably just ignore. You can find a consumer attorney in your state through www.naca.net
Whatever you say, they weave into their ;fraudulent script.
They are a bunch of liars, just phone extortionists using a vague "collection agency" sounding alias.
It's easy when you are safely on the other end of the phone, even hiding where you are really located.
Contact your state Attorney General to report the fraudulent and extortionate collection attempt.
Legitimate debt collectors send the FDCPA required "g" letter notifying you of your right to dispute an alleged debt, which also provides their contact information so that you can send that dispute. If they sued (most don't) they would also serve you with a summons, which would then notify you of the lawsuit so you could respond in court.
The fakes just threaten and BS you on the phone.
If you had a judgement, the creditor would have tried to collect long before now.
This could either be that old thrown out "debt", now in the hands of the lowest of the low willing to lie about some "judgement" thinking you will fall for it, or some equally shady or made up "debt". If they thought you owned your house, that would be consistent with pulling your credit report, which is common with debt collection shakedown rackets. Notice all the BS they tell you like it's all the truth, with no way to verify any of it. Just throw it at you, hit or miss, and if one lie doesn't stick, throw out another one. Panic you, and maybe your family, and they cough up next month's rent money just to get you out of "trouble". All with no proof, and nothing in writing.
Pattern of illegal collection is consistent with tactics common with fraudulent debt collection of fake "debt".
Something led them to believe you would fall for more. Pull your credit reports and see what shows up there. Might by a recent inquiry under some other name, but searching on that may tell you through other complaints something about the scammers behind this shakedown. The name is a little vague to connect reliably with known reports, but the M.O. smells like Buffalo.
If they continue calling, start filing harassment complaints with FTC.
They the fit the profile for the companies FTC chooses to make an example of, due to a long history of fraudulent collection, evading validation, billing and damaging credit of the wrong people, and phone harassment, so give them some complaint numbers to work with.
2) Calls to relatives, to coerce by harassment and embarrassment.
3) "Debt" doesn't match any real past account.
4) Documented information never provided.
5) threats of a "lawsuit" or "prosecution"
The "debt" is fake, they know it, they can't do anything but harass you, but they think that might extort money from you. Send the message that it won't.