Harassment
Complaint
Debra M. Persiano
Country: United States
I got a call today at home from a man stating he was a process server for Collin County DA's Office and he is with the Sheriff's office and needed to come serve a warrant on me. I was shocked and asked why? He stated do you live ....are you still at this address are you now at this address and I stated who are you? He again, stated he was from the county going to serve court papers on me today. He gave me a toll free number for what he stated was the county's office which is 1 866.872.6116 gave me a case no. which he called a Cause No. 008307-TX. I called the number was transferred to a Mr. Fisher's office who stated that law suite in the amount of $6,214.24 was filed in Collin Co., Tx and that warrant was out for me. He then after back and forth said let me get more information from my secretary and state this was for an outstanding debt in from Capital One a credit card that I obtained several years back and had disputes over interest charges etc. He stated that if I did not want to go to court or jail that I could pay $1,951.00 in full by end of business today and this matter could be cleared up. I explained that I recently lost my job etc. Anyway, he stated that I needed to call him back by EOB today or they will serve the papers. Ok, so that was a heads up for me. I called the DA's office nothing is filed on me as of today, after searching PMG it is clear that they do not practice best practices for collections and have been in trouble for this before back in 2004. I need someone to give me advise. I want to pay off my debt, I don't want this type of collections to continue this upset me, made my blood pressure raise, this type of collections are not the right thing to do. Had they called and ask to make arrangements or give me an opportunity to clear the matter, rather then threaten me by taken legal action, or harassment stating they are sending a sheriff over today. This is wrong, bad business, and should not continue this company is bad news.
Comments
She called from 323 247 8032 and said that she worked for Los Angeles County and I was being served and needed to know my address. Fair enough, she wasn't rude just needed to verify an address.
Of course before I give my address out I need to make sure I know who I am talking to and what is being referred to. After I asked for more information she got defensive. She then started laughing and asked by I was hostile. Right away I knew she did not work for the United States government, because I do not believe state workers can laugh at you and call you Hostile and ask if you're having a bad day. Immediately I knew she was lying. She did however give me the phone number of PMG who was handling "my case" Why can't these people just come out and say who they are without trying to entrap you?
Reports include not only threats of arrest, but impersonating local law enforcement personnel:
"process server for Collin County DA's Office and he is with the Sheriff's office and needed to come serve a warrant on me."
" I called the DA's office nothing is filed on me as of today"
Numerous complaints indicate attempts to collect several thousand dollars, through threats and intimidation, from people who claim they don't owe it or never even had such an account.
"They said i owed over $2k but it had accrued to over $5k & they were going to serve me papers or just take this to court without my presence. I have no recollection of the card they were trying to collect on & they would not give me specific #'s or information & then the "Anthony" I spoke to became loud, screaming & obnoxious asking why I was acting like a victim & that I was irresponsible."
"He had my SS# and everything."
Using credit report information for purposes of abuse and intimidation, probably to panic people into paying money without checking out the legitimacy of the debt.
"he started to read my credit report and asking me questions about where i currently lived and reading off all my past addresses from when i was 13"
" He gave me a case number and even the last four digits of my old Capital One credit card. He was even telling me about other credit cards I had back in 1996 that I no longer have."
"He said that I was being sued for $3768.50 on Capital One Master Card. I have never owned one! I told him I did not and he got hateful. Started yelling and told me I needed to pay."
" they threw 3 social security numbers out one was one mine.... stating that I owe 5000 dollars"
Overall pattern is that:
1) They use abuse and threats to pressure people to pay several thousand dollars immediately,
2) Most consumer complaints indicate no belief the alleged "debt" is even legitimate,
3) They use credit report information and SSN (and NOT validation) to attempt to convince people that it is.
The simplest explanation is that they are pulling credit report information, from which they can get both SSN and old account information, and use it to attempt to con people into paying a "mistakenly identified" or made-up "debt".
Their focus is on steering people away from any attempt at validation, substituting information obtainable from credit reports combined with threats as "proof", and they are trying very hard to scare people into paying immediately with false and illegal threats of arrest and suing, indicating they already know their claimed "debt" is bogus, or at least not owed by who they are calling.
Amount is in line with common consumer fraud amounts for magazine subscription scams, advance fee loan scams, etc, and low enough that a consumer might agree to "settle" based on costs to hire an attorney.
Many elements of deception, and deliberately chosen constructs designed to further that deception, visible across multiple complaints. Two cases of probable phony "consumer complaints" appear early, constructed to make it appear their actions are legitimate.
Because they ARE trying to entrap you?
PMG has impersonated sheriff or DA employees before, apparently for some county in Texas, which was where the alleged debtor lived. They also have claimed to be a "law firm", yet their business license says they are a collection agency.
If you were actually called by a real process server, then suit would already have to have been filed, presumably in Los Angeles County. If so, then there would be no reason to be rude, just serve the papers and sign off, since that would be their job.
They now know your correct address, and know which credit report to pull and use against you.
My bet is instead of being served with "papers", you get abusive calls attempting to get you to pay to "settle" some "lawsuit" for a "debt" you have no clue about, without asking questions about whether you actually owe anything.
Let us know.
Basically an illegal threat, by an alleged "law firm" yet (also by definition a "debt collector"), to intentionally engage in "sewer service" to obtain a default judgement, in order to strong-arm the consumer into settling and paying a "debt" they don't even recognize, and for which PMG has refused to provide any information.
That does not mean that it is always legal for them to actually pull those reports, but your only recourse is to catch them, and sue them, after the fact.
Intimidation and veiled threats using credit report or skip-trace information has been reported in connection with a number of debt collectors, most notably CAMCO, which was shut down by FTC, who claimed that up to 80% of the "debts" they collected were bogus. You can even find on-line reports from ex-employees of CAMCO on how they employed this information against consumers to extort payments.
A real process server would just serve the papers. The numer is reported by others to be PMG.
"transferred me to Ray Fisher"
Same name (probably an alias) has been reported by others.
"Fisher advised me that I am being sued for $3,000 for not paying a credit card account and when I told him I've never heard of the credit company he mentioned, he changed his story and said that I owed over $4,000 to capital one. "
As you know, you have never had a credit card, and you don't owe this bogus "debt". Other reports show they change their story to try to make a credible claim, which is the mark of a con game. Other reports also indicate bogus "Capital One debts".
"I never had a credit card but he insisted that I did, and that they have taken legal actions and that I can be arrested. "
Suing to collect a debt is a civil matter. It is not a criminal matter, yet they are implying that it is, and that you might be arrested if you don't pay them. That is a violation of FDCPA, the California Rosenthal Act, and probably your own state's debt collection laws as well. You can sue THEM for saying it.
"When I called back to ask for their address, so I can file a complaint, they refused and said that I was harassing them. "
That also is a common con artist tactic, claiming YOUR entirely legal contacts to resolve or dispute are somehow harassment or actionable.
You can get their address from www.bbb.org, or it is listed from their business license data (apparently Corona CA) near the beginning of this thread.
File complaints with FTC, your state Attorney General, and the California Attorney General. In addition, contact your local office of the FBI, since MOST complaints indicate they are using illegal threats of arrest to attempt to extort money on what most consumers are claiming are entirely non-existent "debts".
Initially claim to be suing on around $3000 to $4000, then claim amount "owed" is about a thousand higher.
Amounts are always in the same range.
Several reports of initially vague alleged creditor, followed later by a more specific alleged creditor, often "Capital One". Some have called it "phishing".
Many consumers claim they never had an account with alleged creditor.
Most consumers report they believe the alleged "debt" is entirely invalid.
They are trying to set up multiple "reasons" for consumers to immediately "agree" to a "settlement", using threats of arrest, threats of a supposedly already filed lawsuit, risk of possible higher amount owed if it goes to court, third party disclosure to relatives, denial of address to send dispute, contact only by telephone, reading of SSN and credit report data in place of actual proof, all constructed to panic consumers into "settling" with no proof the debt is even valid.
Third party disclosure may be an additional avenue to embarass and intimidate, as well as an attempt to induce relatives to "help" the victim avoid arrest or court by paying the "debt".
1) claiming to be a "law firm",
2) claiming to be a "process server", in various locations,
3) claiming to be with the Sheriff's Dept., or DA, in Texas,
4) claiming to be "with the County of Los Angeles",
5) claiming to have already sued,
6) claiming the consumer could be arrested,
7) claiming that they could just not bother to serve papers and obtain default judgement, as if that was perfectly legal,
8) phony "consumer postings" claiming they had obtained judgements, garnishments, etc.
9) claiming that contacting them to dispute was "harassment".
At one extreme, you may have an otherwise legitimate debt collector, training their employees in compliance with FDCPA, FCRA, and state law. Some fraction of bad debts are skip-traced in error, sent to the wrong person, and some employee has learned, probably from past experience, that they can boost their bonus with deceptive statements to confused callers who don't know what their rights are, with little risk because the statements are ambiguous even though the consumer is led to understand exactly what the deceptive debt collector intends. FDCPA's required notice sent within 5 days was intended to notify consumers of their right to dispute and request proof, but many consumers call, opening themselves up to this type of deception. Such deception is often by half-truths, by what is not said.
Other debt collectors, often ones who buy old bad debt (trying to turn cheap "coal" into "gold"), employ more widespread deceptive practices. Even though they know what the law requires, they also know they can ususally get away with it, as long as they can show when sued that at least officially they have all the documented policies. The degree of deception and abuse may be tailored to the sophistication of the caller, or adjusted to the characteristics of each batch of purchased bad debt.
At some point, so little connection exists between electronic files of supposed bad debts and real locatable debtors, that it is anyone's guess who owes it, or whether it is owed at all. Bad debts may come from bankrupt businesses, be over a decade old, be extracted or fabricated from purchased lists of old account data, or have been passed through several debt collectors, but that does not stop some debt collectors from trying to get money out of them. They often send out mass mailings, maybe even mailing any similarly named person in an area or the whole country, and demanding that EACH such person pay this debt. Their claim is flimsy, but again, most consumers don't know their rights, and don't know what a con game this has become. This is the end of the business where abusive calls are common, as they are attempting to shake money out of people who may be suspicious, but might be scared into paying some "debt" through fear of damaged credit, embarrassment, or even be convinced they do owe it but forgot it. Or they catch some home purchaser vulnerable because they have a home loan in escrow.
There have actually been psychology studies of how accusations can create false memories, where the subject actually believes the false claim, if it is agressive enough, and if a few "details" are added to anchor the false belief. Debt collectors may not know of these studies (although defense lawyers probably do, as it applies to the validity of witness or defendent testimony), but those that are good at this con have become adept at playing it. The risk is being challenged and sued, but under current law, having some "debt" as an excuse will at least keep them out of prison, for what now arguably becomes a con or extortion attempt, as long as the abuse is not too extreme.
Similar to these "old debt" debt collectors, are the fraudulent telemarketing/debt collection scams. These may be for, say, magazines subscriptions, at what appear to be competitive prices, that the telemarketer then later claims was a "verbal agreement" at some grossly inflated price, or nothing is even sent, and then some debt collector starts hounding the consumer with calls and threats over what is now allegedly a $600 to $2000 "contract". These debt collectors appear to know full well the fraudulent nature of the scam, but may be either another telemarketer playing debt collector, or some actual collection agency that has developed "skill" at handling these fraudulent collections, knowing when to move on before some Attorney General gets interested. Health club membership contracts, set up as "loans" but deceptively sold as "monthly memberships", often fit this pattern as well.
Next come debt collectors who actually clearly violate the law, in abusive and harassing collection, deliberately contacting employers, relatives or neighbors, or making threats of lawsuits or arrest. Among actual debt collectors, this is most common currently with payday loan debt collection, where the false and deceptive claim that the borrower has stolen money and will be arrested for writing a "bad check" is often used. (The common way of paying payday loans is with a post-dated check.) Of course, these bozos aren't actually very good at much other than intimidation, so they also call many wrong people, often extorting money out of people who do not owe them a dime. These cases periodically make the network investigative reporting shows.
Then you get to the criminal enterprises or con games that may actually be making up the debt entirely. They may or may not be actually licensed, often hide their location, use multiple names, and spread their activity across the country to limit visibility and legal or regulatory action. Examples include several recently closed operations in the Buffalo NY area, with arrests and investigation by Attorney General Cuomo, some known to be in the Jacksonville FL area, which seem to be shut down and reamerge under new names periodically, and some con artist/extortionists, that just use untracable cell phones to call people demanding money. There is actually apparently a gang of such "debt collectors", with thick Indian accents, that appear to have consumer information obtained from defunct Floida debt collectors, that have been engaged in vicious threats of arrest, lawsuits, prosecution, etc. Some of this involves cross-border Canadian con artists, as there is apparently a large fraudulent telemarketing "industry" in the Montreal area, engaged in a wide range of frauds.
As for having your information, thousands of people could have your information (your employer, HR, payroll, etc, your bank and credit card companies, every company you have done business with, every school you ever attended for even one course, public records of property ownership, Accurint "information" linked to junk information, credit report data merged with any other person with similar name and a number of similar SSN digits or past address on the same street, on and on), and there is very little you can do to stop them from being dishonest.
We can already see from a simple profile of complaints that these bozos have access to credit reports, and to skip-trace services (maybe Accurint), as they use it in their intimidation tactics. They have gone to the trouble of appearing to be legitimate enough to plausibly get this access from the credit reporting agencies. It is that use, combined with extreme and illegal threats and deception, the very high prevalence of consumer complaints that the debts are entirely bogus, and the scheme appearing instantly from the moment they got their business license, rather than evolving with a mix of bogus and real debt as you would expect from even a bad debt collector, that points to fabrication.
They have the focus on that use of credit and consumer information, the opportunity, the motive, the M.O. for deception in other forms, all of which says look for deception in EVERY aspect of what they are doing. As there is nothing to support validity of any of their alleged "debts", look for it there as well.
It is very highly unlikely that a loss of a wallet 2 weeks ago could result in a multi-thousand dollar "debt" in the hands of a "debt collector" in so short a time.
Even if a thief started opening accounts to borrow money, the original creditor would probably not realize there was trouble for several months, and it probably wouldn't get sent to a debt collector in under 3 months.
Faced with nonsense claims, the victim is attempting to make sense of it, which plays to the advantage of deceptive scammers running a con. They can latch onto whatever the victim most believes, then play that to their best advantage to extort money by using the victim's own beliefs as substantiation of the "debt", focussing their pressure on threats, cost, risk, etc, to try to make paying even a fraudulent debt appear to be the safest choice.
The con artist may or may not have already known from credit report information that there was an "id theft con" opportunity, but will likely pick up on it fast enough.
Paradoxically, "ID theft" has been routinely used by a number of debt collectors as an excuse to demand payment from the alleged victim, even though on its face, it would appear to be a defense AGAINST owing the debt. It usually involves either playing up the cost or time to "prove" it was id theft and the damage and uncertainty of success, baselessly speculating on the involvement of relatives in committing the crime, or convincing the victim that filing an id theft complaint might result in accusations and criminal prosecution of them or a relative.
Filing a complaint with the California Bar would be appropriate.
Consistent with 11-1-09 business license start date.
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16345602/140-N ... -107-Corona-CA/
"...
140 N. Maple Street, Suite 107, Corona, CA 92880
Total Space Available:Fully Leased
Rental Rate:N/A
Min. Divisible:Fully Leased
Max. Contiguous:Fully Leased
Property Type:Industrial
Property Sub-type:Flex Space
Building Size:15,192 SF
Year Built:1993
Zoning Description:M-2/0
Features:Electricity/Power
Last Verified 10/22/2009
Listing ID 16345602
Highlights
Two private offices
Large open office area
Storage room
Description
Maple Centre offers suites for lease with unparalleled aesthetic value. Maple Centre has premium architectural features, including floor-to ceiling glass, brick pavers, fluted tilt-up concrete walls, and extensive landscape. Zoned M-2/0, the park is home to a variety of businesses including engineers, lending institutions, and various service providers.
Maple Centre is a multi-tenant business park which is strategically located at the western edge of Corona, California. The park is within 20 minutes of Ontario International Airport, 1.5 miles from to Corona Municipal Airport and .5 miles to the 91.
..."
The range of consumer complaints indicates access to both credit reports and probably skip-trace databases like Accurint, both commonly used by debt collectors.
They are using this information to create the appearance that their "debt" claim is "legitimate", even though access to such consumer credit or skip-trace information, even if accurate, has no logical relationship to any other statement they make.
Deception is about manipulating appearances, so some factor, either present or absent, can be expected to differ from normal. But the fact that most American consumers don't even know what is normal, combined with information hiding by the credit reporting agencies from full access by consumers to their own files, makes their manipulation easy even when the claims are gross fabrications.
For example, most people think you need a SSN to pull a credit report, or to put information on one. The systems are designed to make it easy to search with even partial name alone, or with mangled name, address or other information, and to then select which of several close matches you want, based on resulting address and SSN from the search. You punch in any name, you have the rest.
Accurint allows even wider searching, although supposedly the resulting SSN is in some cases only returned as 5 digits. But punch in the "last 4" and it will tell you if it matches the whole 9, even with lower certification levels. So much for protecting your SSN by only giving the last 4 digits.
Most people think access is somehow highly restricted. Although the law requires such restrictions, the credit reporting agencies in fact do little to enforce proper use of credit data by their customers other than ask them generically what their "permissible purpose" is, and trust their answer.
Any company claiming to be a debt collector has full access just by saying so, since "debt collection" is defined as a "permissible purpose". Credit reporting agencies just push off the responsibility and liability onto their customers, which means it is up to regulators or consumers and their attorneys to enforce the law, if they even find out within the SOL.
Even the required posting of inquiries is inconsistent, with the credit reporting agencies not fully reporting the reasons for inquiries, or even all inquiries in many cases, depending on how the inquiry has been coded. The whole system is designed to muddy accountability, except for the effect on the reputation of the consumer.
Information released to consumers by the credit reporting agencies is not sufficiently complete to be easily auditable, complicating establishing accountability in court, in particular missing in source and posting date metadata linking posted acount information with associated address or identity information from the same data furnisher, useful for tracing and correcting identity fraud or identification mistakes.
Also, please provide details so that others can recognize the pattern and avoid being conned.
Portfolio MG LLC
140 N. Maple Suite 107 Corona CA 92880
Aaron Honda
HGG
Caller id: "PMG"
Caller id: "PMG Law Firm"
"Eric Kennedy"
"Anthony"
"Ray Fisher"
"Roy Fisher"
"attorney"
Common alleged debt: "Capital One Master Card"
Main number: 866-872-5550
866-872-6116
866-872-6117
Caller id: "PMG FILING AGENTS"
951-256-3755
"Tory"
"said that she worked for Los Angeles County"
323 247 8032
Impersonations:
"attorney"
"process server for Collin County DA's Office"
"with the Sheriff's office"
"said that she worked for Los Angeles County"
http://phoneowner.info/Number.aspx/8668725550
https://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/8668725550
Aliases:
"Toi Sunn"
"Michael Jones"
"Roy Fletcher"
Impersonations:
"County Processing Office"