RPM trying to collect a fake debt
Complaint
JP
Country: United States
On 4 Apr 08 I got a call from Receivables Performance Management (RPM) claiming that I owe $85 on a Verizon account from 2000. I know that I’ve never had a Verizon account, and that my phone account from 2000 (I forget which company) was paid properly. So I told the RPM rep that they were full of s**t, and that I wanted written proof that this debt is actually mine. They had the last 4 of my SSN and tried to pass that off as “proof” that their info was legitimate. I still didn’t fall for it and asked for everything in writing.
Fortunately I have records that go back that far. I also called Verizon to confirm that they don’t have any account information with my name on it. Surprisingly they have no record of me ever having an account with them. I then went online to find out if RPM is some sort of scam. They are a “legitimate” company, yet seem to be practicing what I would describe as predatory debt collection, or legal extortion. Unfortunately, there is not much information on the internet yet about RPM. However, there is a lot of information about AFNI, who seem to be doing the same thing.
So, after I found this web page, and read all of the information about AFNI, I downloaded the FDCPA and FCRA and read them. I’m sending RPM a letter in accordance with the FDCPA. I’m also sending the letter to my state’s AG and the WA state AG. (RPM is located in Bothell WA.) I also checked all of my credit reports to make sure that nothing has been placed on them. I’ll continue to monitor my credit reports very closely for the next few months. As this develops I’ll update this comment.
I’m considering contacting a lawyer to see if what RPM is doing is in any way actually extortion. It’s a crime that the max penalty under FDCPA and FCRA is only $1000 or actual damages. Obviously that small amount isn’t enough of an incentive to keep these companies from violating the law. I’m also going to contact my Congressmen about this. Maybe if enough of us complain the law can get changed?
Oh, and a huge thanks to the poster on this site TJ! His information and advice was invaluable!!
Fortunately I have records that go back that far. I also called Verizon to confirm that they don’t have any account information with my name on it. Surprisingly they have no record of me ever having an account with them. I then went online to find out if RPM is some sort of scam. They are a “legitimate” company, yet seem to be practicing what I would describe as predatory debt collection, or legal extortion. Unfortunately, there is not much information on the internet yet about RPM. However, there is a lot of information about AFNI, who seem to be doing the same thing.
So, after I found this web page, and read all of the information about AFNI, I downloaded the FDCPA and FCRA and read them. I’m sending RPM a letter in accordance with the FDCPA. I’m also sending the letter to my state’s AG and the WA state AG. (RPM is located in Bothell WA.) I also checked all of my credit reports to make sure that nothing has been placed on them. I’ll continue to monitor my credit reports very closely for the next few months. As this develops I’ll update this comment.
I’m considering contacting a lawyer to see if what RPM is doing is in any way actually extortion. It’s a crime that the max penalty under FDCPA and FCRA is only $1000 or actual damages. Obviously that small amount isn’t enough of an incentive to keep these companies from violating the law. I’m also going to contact my Congressmen about this. Maybe if enough of us complain the law can get changed?
Oh, and a huge thanks to the poster on this site TJ! His information and advice was invaluable!!
Comments
Perhaps I'll now try his replacement, AG Koster. But I don't expect much. Collection Agencies seem to get a pass in Missouri...
I had the same problem with a collector whom I cannot name because they negotiated a confidentiality agreement for them to go away where I gave up my right to sue them in a class action lawsuit once they were exposed by my attorney as attempting to collect a fraudulent (nonexistant)debt that they CREATED out of thin air with nothing but my name and DOB.
The great part about all of this is that when enough EDUCATED consumers are harassed and abused in this manner in the future, they will start to get pissed off, which causes them to stand up to the financial bullying that takes place in the debt collection profession. Enevitably, this is what will change the practices and cause major oversight by the goverment because they get tired of the legal system being clogged up by fraudulent commerce cases.
Their day of reconing is coming. I CAN'T WAIT!
Probably a blatant lie.
The cable company screwed up, failed to credit your account for the return, and sent out a bunch of alleged "delinquent accounts" for collection months to years later. They always use the same debt collectors for this stuff, so there probably wasn't any "previous agency".
Even though the law (FDCPA) requires that they notify you of your right to dispute, debt collectors don't want consumers to dispute anything, since it costs them money and makes it likely they won't get paid, for what may be an unowed debt. They would rather use deceptive statements to steer you toward paying instead of disputing, so they blame YOU.
It will never reach any court, but the intent of their "little lie" was to defraud you. That's what they are trained to do.
That is the excuse they commonly use to get away with behavior that would land anyone else in jail.
The dirty little secret of the debt collection industry is that they are as willing to take money from people they call "in error" as from some actual debtor, while they blame it all on the suckers they con. That most notorious of debt collection towns, Buffalo, got that way because the scam boiler rooms located there got shut down, and the scammers just shifted into "debt collection".
Although some academic studies of fraud rackets have found that "mixed frauds" (where a legitimate business is mixed with partially fraudulent activity) is much harder to recognize and prosecute, regulatory authorities have not adapted to the degree to which debt collectors collecting legitimately also intentionally profit from "cutting corners". The tactics of managing their complaint load to limit visibility appear to be borrowed from fraudulent telemarketing operations.
Like "YOUR Finacial advisor for the debt,..." WOW. There is a deceptive term. You work for YOUR company, whom in turn is responsible to gues who: THEMSELFS!
"If someone calls me, knows my #, knows where I live, knows the last four of my SSN# and I know I have the debt,....."
Lets examine how full of S**T collectors can be...first off I can "obtain a name and debt info, This does not mean that when i go into the white pages online and reverse look the name and address, that the first David C. Jones is in fact the correct one, MAYBE there are 17 of them listed. Just knowing the info DOES not mean you are right.
2)the above poster showed his ignorance by again ASSUMING they have contacted the correct person, and said person " Knows " they have the debt.
3) ok, something not many of you junior collectors know or care about, but just the last 4 of a social ARE NOT validation enough. I was collecting on a case that wound up in court 7 years ago, and the person I ACCUSED of owing the debt was , in fact, NOT THE CORRECT DEBTOR! there was a 1 digit difference in the 5th digit from the left...1 digit off...the first 4 digits were correct and the LAST 4 digits were correct. Address was correct. But despite Said accused denying the debt, we went with how we were trained...delay and stall because it takes time and money to PROVE they owe the debt.
As a collector it is our FIRST responsibility to ensure we have the correct person the correct person. For christ sake it is MANDATED IN OUR JOB DESCRIPTION PPL! I referr you now to a post by tj:
Is this message clear?
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/10/alliedinterstate.shtm
"...
For Release: 10/21/2010
Debt Collector Will Pay $1.75 Million to Settle FTC Charges
Ignored Consumers’ Disputes Without Checking Its Information for Accuracy
...
“Debt collectors had better make sure their information is accurate, or they could end up paying a big penalty,” said David Vladeck, Director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection. “There is no excuse for trying to collect debt from someone if you can’t confirm that they actually owe it.”
No matter how we PERSONALLY feel about "deadbeats", We have to adhere to a Modicum of professionalism and make sure the person we have contacted is the correct person. Just Getting a report from some burn-out being payed 7.75 per hour to sit in a room and skiptrace does not mean that we have reached the correct person, AND continuing on without taking steps to verify OUR information can lead to US, as the collector, being sued PERSONALLY, without blanket protection of the company we Collect for. The company WILL ALWAYS COVER THIER OWN A**! In a choice between you and them, they will win EVERYTIME!
Getting back to Information reliability, the Info we get in our case files is ONLY AS RELIABLE as the worker who entered it. Therefore, while it is not always PREFERRABLE, it is still a wise decision to allow debt validation and contiue with the other 75-150 cases you have in your portfolio. you can waste 10-15 min, usually more, arguing with someone on the phone, or provide them with the info they need, and simply note the logs, and move on. Collections is a statistical job, and the more cases you work, the better your odds of making Quota and bonuses!.
OH! Sorry but it does matter to a collector if they get the money, and 10% of all collectors do not care if they get the money from the wrong person! The Mindset and Personality type required to be a SUCCESSFULL collector DEMANDS that you first and foremost be a mistrusting person, secondly you have to have that overbearing personality that people say "commands attention"! If not you're never going to collect unless you hit an Honest Debtor (IN MY OWN OPINION, 98% are not honest)which I have done 2 times in my 15 1/2 years of collecting. I have NEVER been indignant or rude to anyone I have collected from and in the lawsuit I was involved in 7 years ago I was a witness, not even the collector who got sued. (By the way, for those who care, 3 years after the incident he was collected on by one of my team members at our company, and I had to handle the call. He personally opologised to me on behalf of everyone he collected from! A most Fitting punishment and the single most perfect example of Irony I have ever come accross!) Now he was one of the "Deadbeats" he always "hated".
My point is that these IDIOTS at RPM, or should I digress and say the ones from RPM WHO ARE POSTING HERE are playing the numbers game, only, what they dont realise is that the outcome isnt gonna be how much they collect, its gonna be "How long untill they themselfs are sued?" I have been around long enough to see it, and I cant stand ignorant people such as those posting from rpm here. THEY are the reason I have to deal with Irate persons on the phone, and get the crap from those who hate collectors.
Anyway, go on people, DO NOT STOP Disputing the debt, and hopefully in the future, we can weed out those who make it hard for the rest of us to do our job!
Yeah unfortunately you are correct, I worked for Telespectrum for the last year before it closed, and the week before it closed in Buffalo, a Collection agency moved in and took 50% of the workers and made them "Collections agents". lol in a period of 3 days.....so sad.
1)I collect and I KNOW that there is a commission based pay schedule. you get payed based on what you collect. while this MAY not be universal, how can you say Collectors dont care? Think about it...Are you gonna stress yourself out over collectimg a debt if you get nothing for it? No commission? I didnt think you would. Noone would.
2)I was contacted By RPM saying I owed a bill, which I never did Owe. I contacted the company that supposedly sold the debt. Guess what? They had NO RECORD OF ME AS A CUSTOMER! HOWEVER...for 4 and a half months I continued to be HOUNDED, sometimes literally 2-3 times a day By collectors at RPM! It took a lawyer to get them to stop. Now, even with no Law degree, I KNEW this was illegal, so how is it that you dont? I have done collections for MANY MANY YEARS....and one unmistakable fact is that collectors are trained to lie and mislead, simply by wording used with Debtors. They are trained to bend the law, and to try and not bend it so tight it breaks.
And one more thing, not all poor people are lazy. I was poor, and after paying bills I used to have MAYBE enough to buy a cup of coffee. Some months I couldn't make the bills, and have had accounts in collections. Yes I payed them off, but it wasnt till 2 YEARS later when I had the ability to. I am not lazy, I work hard and in addition to my Collections Job, I have a career. But, I did not always..and never did I expect anyone to hand me anything, But due to circumstances beyond human control, I ended up oweing money.....so be carefull whom you generalise about, because you could be, compared to some people, labeled as poor. Go Check the national databases on poverty levels and see what "poor" actually is.
We've only just begun to work through the fraudulent morgage foreclosure mess, but mixed in with the cases involving actual delinquent borrowers are outragous cases of perjured or forged affidavits, and unchecked documents erroneously identifying property, resulting in foreclosures houses owned by some other bank's borrower, or even of paid off houses.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-15/fore ... nn-woolner.html
"Foreclosure documents show bank employees didn’t get their own names, titles or employer names right or figure out who owned the note. Does it make sense that the only thing these folks got correct in thousands of foreclosures was each borrower’s payment record?"
Discovered and reported "mistakes", whether they are voluntarily corrected, or lead to court, are not just the only mistakes that are happening. They are only a sampling of the types of mistakes an institution is capable of making, pared down by the limited subset of consumers capable of effectively forcing the issue. As such, their types are representative, but their numbers are generally just the tip of the iceberg. They statistically underreport the true level of fraud, deception, abuse, harassment, or even innocent errors.
What they do accurately answer is the question: Is this institution or individual honest, accurate, legally compliant, etc? Often, the answer is "No". As in any scientific experiment, proof by disproof, through counterexample, is strong evidence.
Four digits of SSN still only get you to no better than 1 in 10000 chance that you are wrong even when everything else checks out. How many debts go through your shop in a year? From the point of view of the consumer who knows they don't owe an alleged debt, it's still just a con to avoid validation.
Debt collectors claim SSN matches prove a "debt" in far too many cases where consumers know otherwise. SSNs aren't private, secret, secure "digital signatures". Not even close, since any debt collector could just look it up, and there are enough consumer complaints consistent with that as the only source, where consumers have confirmed with the original creditor that they have no old account, not even a fraudulently opened one. They are in thousands of records, accessible by tens of thousands of people, not to mention EVERYONE with access to credit reports and skip-trace services.
Heck, the phony Indian "payday loan debt collection" scammers have SSNs, DOBs, addresses, employers, relatives, and their "debts" are entirely fake.
And if you can't find someone by name, but you think you can depend on the accuracy of an SSN, how reliable is that for identifying a "debtor"?
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2010/12/odds-someone-else-has-your-ssn-one-in-7.html
"What are the odds someone else has used your Social Security number? One in 7.
That’s the stunning conclusion of a San Diego company's analysis of 290 million Social Security numbers, which found that 40 million of them have been attached to more than one name. The study, conducted by the fraud-fighting firm ID Analytics, is the first of its kind that’s been made available to the public.
We first wrote about the problem of “SSN-only” identity theft five years ago, and estimated that millions of Americans were on the “secret list of identity theft victims” whose SSNs had been misappropriated by an imposter to obtain work or credit.
The IRS often knows when this happens, when the imposter pays taxes. The Social Security Administration knows, too, for the same reason. And the nation's credit bureaus usually know, because the imposter often ends up applying for some form of credit. Plenty of financial institutions also have access to this information.
But no one is telling you. In short, all these government agencies and financial firms don't think you have a right to know.
We're no closer to finding out who's on that list today, but at least we now know how big the problem is: much bigger than we originally estimated.
..."
But the most deceptive part of the "SSN proves it" talk-off is that it is intended to divert consumers from their FDCPA dispute rights. The debt could be fake, paid, misidentified, a result of a billing correction improperly sent to collection, etc, yet the debt collector has in fact disclosed NO documentation of the debt in any way, has not checked with the original creditor, but is trying to collect even when these are all possibilities, even while he knows he has no direct knowledge one way or the other. That is intentionally deceptive, and the use of such talk-offs to collect unowed debt is fraud.
Continuing to harass debtors for payment when they have been notified that you are in bankruptcy is an attempt to bypass the court's authority and cheat the other creditors. Paying one creditor without direction by the court can get YOU in trouble as well, for the same reason. It is basically contempt.
You don't tell them to send you a dispute and validation request letter?
If not, then you have just deceived them into thinking that they can only dispute the alleged debt due to fraud, or only if they file a police report. That is deceptive collection, and a violation of FDCPA.
As you know, "contacting the client" does NOTHING to invoke their FDCPA dispute rights with YOU, and cleverly avoids the FDCPA provision prohibiting collection until you provide validation. You may also know that many of your creditor clients ignore attempts by consumers to contact them about suspect debts, as they have no legal obligation to respond short of being sued.
Other complaints, as well as statements by other RPM employees, indicate that you are apparently trained to find excuses for why consumers can't dispute, which may be resulting in fraudulent collection activity. That may explain your rapidly rising rate of federal FDCPA lawsuits.
No information the original creditor has already sent you is any substitute for passing on a dispute from the alleged debtor back to the creditor, and passing back verification. To claim that checking your own electronic records is "verification" is deceptive, as is implying that is all consumers have a right to request.
Your pattern of complaints is showing high rates of misidentification, which indicates that in many cases where consumers are disputing alleged debts, it IS your responsibility, and has nothing to do with "fraud".
It has become an increasingly common pattern of fraudulent debt collection for debt collectors to claim that misidentification by a debt collector is "id theft".