RPM trying to collect a fake debt
Complaint
JP
Country: United States
On 4 Apr 08 I got a call from Receivables Performance Management (RPM) claiming that I owe $85 on a Verizon account from 2000. I know that I’ve never had a Verizon account, and that my phone account from 2000 (I forget which company) was paid properly. So I told the RPM rep that they were full of s**t, and that I wanted written proof that this debt is actually mine. They had the last 4 of my SSN and tried to pass that off as “proof” that their info was legitimate. I still didn’t fall for it and asked for everything in writing.
Fortunately I have records that go back that far. I also called Verizon to confirm that they don’t have any account information with my name on it. Surprisingly they have no record of me ever having an account with them. I then went online to find out if RPM is some sort of scam. They are a “legitimate” company, yet seem to be practicing what I would describe as predatory debt collection, or legal extortion. Unfortunately, there is not much information on the internet yet about RPM. However, there is a lot of information about AFNI, who seem to be doing the same thing.
So, after I found this web page, and read all of the information about AFNI, I downloaded the FDCPA and FCRA and read them. I’m sending RPM a letter in accordance with the FDCPA. I’m also sending the letter to my state’s AG and the WA state AG. (RPM is located in Bothell WA.) I also checked all of my credit reports to make sure that nothing has been placed on them. I’ll continue to monitor my credit reports very closely for the next few months. As this develops I’ll update this comment.
I’m considering contacting a lawyer to see if what RPM is doing is in any way actually extortion. It’s a crime that the max penalty under FDCPA and FCRA is only $1000 or actual damages. Obviously that small amount isn’t enough of an incentive to keep these companies from violating the law. I’m also going to contact my Congressmen about this. Maybe if enough of us complain the law can get changed?
Oh, and a huge thanks to the poster on this site TJ! His information and advice was invaluable!!
Fortunately I have records that go back that far. I also called Verizon to confirm that they don’t have any account information with my name on it. Surprisingly they have no record of me ever having an account with them. I then went online to find out if RPM is some sort of scam. They are a “legitimate” company, yet seem to be practicing what I would describe as predatory debt collection, or legal extortion. Unfortunately, there is not much information on the internet yet about RPM. However, there is a lot of information about AFNI, who seem to be doing the same thing.
So, after I found this web page, and read all of the information about AFNI, I downloaded the FDCPA and FCRA and read them. I’m sending RPM a letter in accordance with the FDCPA. I’m also sending the letter to my state’s AG and the WA state AG. (RPM is located in Bothell WA.) I also checked all of my credit reports to make sure that nothing has been placed on them. I’ll continue to monitor my credit reports very closely for the next few months. As this develops I’ll update this comment.
I’m considering contacting a lawyer to see if what RPM is doing is in any way actually extortion. It’s a crime that the max penalty under FDCPA and FCRA is only $1000 or actual damages. Obviously that small amount isn’t enough of an incentive to keep these companies from violating the law. I’m also going to contact my Congressmen about this. Maybe if enough of us complain the law can get changed?
Oh, and a huge thanks to the poster on this site TJ! His information and advice was invaluable!!
Comments
These people are disgusting. Maybe we should have them go after all the Wall Street Brokers who have stole billions!!!!
Surprisingly enough RPM never sent the information required by section 809 of the FDCPA. All I got was a letter with a bill. I sent two letters to RPM requesting validation (Apr 08). As of Nov 08 I haven’t heard anything from them. All this time I’ve had the sinking feeling that this was not over. Sure enough, today I get a letter from Afni trying to collect on the same alleged debt. Of course I’m not going to pay it, and I am going to dispute it. If the debt was valid RPM would have sent the appropriate information. Instead they sold the alleged debt to Afni. Here we go all over again. RPM should have done the morally right thing and deleted any information connecting me to this supposed debt.
The good news is so far my credit report is clean.
Oh, and to the RPM folks here – one of the folks I talked to at RPM threatened to attack my credit if I didn’t pay. That seems to be a clear violation of FDCPA doesn’t it?
When complaints of such "misbehavior" show up from thousands of consumers, continue for years, and show repeated patterns of abuse, it isn't caused by "bad apples", and it won't stop from just firing a few. It comes from the top. Regardless of the rationalization, it indicates a deliberate decision to accept and condone such activities in the interest of maximizing profit.
This is no "valuable service" undertaken to benefit the original creditors, as they sold off this junk and are out of the picture.
It is a fraudulent and unfair business practice to bill, threaten and damage the credit of people who don't even owe you.
You know you are working a batch of old bad debt of questionable accuracy when you keep getting responses from consumers claiming they never heard of the account, never had the phone number, never lived at the address, or never used the alleged name on the account, so you know when the smoke you blow as a talk-off is just a con game. To hide behind some claim that "the original creditor sold it to us, so we can innocently assume it's accurate", when you know it's so much junk without a clue who if anyone even owes it, is simply dishonest.
YOU may have been a professional debt collector for 30 years, but the recent rise of companies focused on collection of old out-of-statute debt, some even bought after discharge in bankruptcy, making use of modern autodialers and database searches by amateurs, has resulted in a rising cloud of stink in your industry. No amount of courtesy and professionalism by whatever professionals may still remain will make much difference.
Muggers who roll drunks, and boiler room scammers who con old ladies have families too, but the damage they do is not offset by their support of their families.
Typically such threats are made verbally, in an attempt to extort payment. They assume most consumers are unsophisticated and unaware of the law, and in most cases they are right.
If they were to carry it out, you would have proof of their violation in the form of your credit report, which you would use as evidence in your lawsuit or regulatory complaint.
If they can't prove it is your account, don't pay them. It isn't your job to guess, and with the low competence and honesty of employees in this industry, a lot of collection activity targets the wrong people.
I called Verizon, and they confirmed that I have NEVER had any type of account with them (I also talked to Verizon Wireless folks). I sent a letter to RPM (certified & return receipt) outlining this, and they received it on Nov. 3. The guy I talked to today at RPM said it would take "months and months" to resolve the dispute. In the meantime, there's a collection account on my credit report that won't go away. I've disputed that with TransUnion.
The guy at RPM said the "burden of proof" was on me to prove that the debt wasn't mine, and that therefore they didn't have to send confirmation of the debt.
I'm not sure what to do. I understand they've violated the FDCPA, but holding them accountable through letters to AGs, etc., won't help fix my credit report. Arg.
If you do nothing, it may legally stay there for about 7 years from 2003, possibly for 2 more years.
"I've never been a customer of Verizon's."
"I called Verizon, and they confirmed that I have NEVER had any type of account with them (I also talked to Verizon Wireless folks)."
You know this isn't your debt. Verizon agrees.
"The guy I talked to today at RPM said it would take "months and months" to resolve the dispute. "
It may take months and months to resolve it. In fact, you may have to sue them. But that is not why he emphasized how long it might take. He is attempting to con you into paying a debt you have already told him you dispute and don't owe by threatening to stretch out the damage it will do to your credit, or the impossibility of removing it without paying them, despite your request for proof of the debt.
His blatant attempt to con you tips you that he regularly engages in this sort of game of deceipt, and that, since you already know their debt is bogus, illegal collection tactics are a regular part of their culture. You know what scum you are dealing with.
"I've disputed that with TransUnion."
Until you dispute with the credit reporting agency, the debt collector has no liability to you even for reporting an account in error. However, you have taken the next step, disputing with the CRA. If the debt collector "verifies" the bogus debt with TransUnion, then you have a cause of action against the debt collector under FCRA, and also possibly under FDCPA.
"The guy at RPM said the "burden of proof" was on me to prove that the debt wasn't mine, and that therefore they didn't have to send confirmation of the debt."
That is entirely false and deceptive, and therefore a violation of the FDCPA.
If you requested validation timely, within 30 days of receiving their first letter, then they MUST CEASE COLLECTION until they sent you validation of the debt, as required by FDCPA. His statement attempts to persuade you that you have no right to validation, contrary to FDCPA, and it is therefore use of deception to collect a debt, also a violation of FDCPA.
File complaints with FTC, your state AG, and the Washington AG. Some state AGs have been responsive to consumer complaints, and RPM might already be on their radar. Might as well give them a little push.
Since damage accumulates, whether through higher costs for credit or lost opportunities, but the courts will only award limited damages, it is in your interest to push this to a conclusion sooner rather than later. If they are damaging your credit but refusing to play by the law, it is now time to look for an attorney.
Unless you are willing to sue, these thugs will freely threaten and damage your good name and credit with impunity. Letters don't make anyone do the right thing, least of all incompetent amoral low lifes. The courts can, however, extract a penalty for the error of their ways, and that is the tool you must use, just as it is the tool any state AG would use.
Look for an attorney practicing in your state with expertise in consumere debt, FDCPA, and FCRA litigation. You might try:
www.naca.net
Or one of these attorneys who have indicated an interest in this area of law might be able to put you in contact with an attorney in your own state:
http://www.myfairdebt.com/b/43/peter-barry/
http://www.alabamaconsumer.com/
http://www.pennlawyer.com/
You get to do anything you want, until someone stops you. In our society, the mechanism we use to stop miscreants is the court system. Most people have little contact with the courts, and (probably wisely) generally avoid them. Debt collectors have learned they have little to fear, regardless of what thuggery they engage in, since few consumers will take any action.
So the bogus debt goes round and round, sold off for pennies on the dollar, and with the lowest of lowlifes trying to turn this sludge into gold. The most successful will, of course, be the most "agressive". They will be the most damaging, and possibly also the most successful, when they "in error" attempt to extort from people with good credit, instead of the original debtor who skipped out, can't be found, and has no money anyway.
In the mean time, our financial system continues to melt down due to shoddy credit and lending standards, lenders tighten standards, crossing off good borrowers including those with credit tarnished by bogus "debts", and driving down the value of their own collateral undermining their capital base and forcing their own mergers or liquidations.
"A pox of your houses!" (William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet)
"A pox on both your houses!" (William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet)
So now that you know the way debt collection works, instead of going around complaining about it, why not tell people how they can raise the money to go hire a lawyer and take the companies I work for to court. If you can't raise the money to do that, then thats too bad, I suggest you pay the bill, that isn't yours unless you want your credit destroyed... But please don't waste any more time with useless anger shouted through the keys of your keyboard unless it's useful.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to catch some sleep, I get to wake up early and earn some commission destroying innocent peoples lives, through their credit from bills that aren't even their's... You know it's true what they say, if you find something you love, you'll never work a day in your life.
ps,... the best part is when you tell someone they're getting a settlement when they're really only being tricked into making a partial payment, and then are automatically sued for the rest for not paying the balance in full...oh and marry christmas to all and to all a good night,
The more the lenders dump bad debt, and the more the bottom-feeder debt buyers engage in irresponsible "skip-tracing", and contacting and poisoning the credit of the wrong people, the more the pool of potential home buyers who might buy up foreclosed properties shrinks, depressing already deflated housing values further, and undermining the capitalization of the lenders, driving them into further mergers and wiping out their stockholders' investments.
It spirals down, and the corrupt debt collection industry is a part of that spiral, poisoning the very credit reporting system that formerly made the American consumer credit markets the most accessible in the world, and the American consumer economy a key part of the stability of the global economy.
We are now seeing banks shrinking credit lines even to people with good credit, further deflating the money supply, on the assumption that they can't even know from credit reports whether any consumer will pay them back, so they can't risk their capital to lend, even when the Fed dumps billions on them to try to get the economy going.
And debt collectors are starting to complain about slowing payments from consumers, even when they are paying, forcing some debt collectors into bankruptcy.
Economic downturns uncover fraud and corruption like a receding tide uncovers shipwrecks, today, just as they did in 2000 with the dot com bust, in 1991 with the S&L debacle, and just as they did after the 1929 crash.
We can expect to hear of more cases of loan fraud, both by borrowers, brokers, and lenders, "foreclosure rescue" fraud, "advance fee loan" fraud, debt collection fraud and extortion, creditor fraud upon the court in bankruptcy court, insider trading by managers dumping stock before their companies collapse, etc.
You know when you might be harassing and wrongly damaging the credit of the wrong person, yet your standard of conduct isn't the Golden Rule, but what you can get away with, which is pretty much the same as the lowest con man scamming old ladies.
Think it isn't affecting you? What is your house worth, and what will it be worth in a year? If you lose your job, what will you be able to sell it for? What is your 401K worth, and will it still be there when you want to retire? Will you have the money to send your kids to college?
Yes, you have brought a pox on your house, too, since you are as much an active participant in this debacle as the "deadbeats" you deride.
Merry Christmas!
This pattern is so consistent both on this site, and on ripoffreport.com, that it cannot be explained away as occasional "mistakes", improper employee training, occasional "bad apples", or "consumer lying". Other debt collectors do NOT have this same pattern of consumer complaints.
This implies a corporate culture apparently tolerant of collecting on alleged debts without regard to validity, use of improper harassing and abusive tactics to evade validation, erroneous or incompetent skip-tracing, and other unsavory behavior more befitting of either a "protection racket", or of a pump-and-dump boiler room operation.