RPM trying to collect a fake debt
Complaint
JP
Country: United States
On 4 Apr 08 I got a call from Receivables Performance Management (RPM) claiming that I owe $85 on a Verizon account from 2000. I know that I’ve never had a Verizon account, and that my phone account from 2000 (I forget which company) was paid properly. So I told the RPM rep that they were full of s**t, and that I wanted written proof that this debt is actually mine. They had the last 4 of my SSN and tried to pass that off as “proof” that their info was legitimate. I still didn’t fall for it and asked for everything in writing.
Fortunately I have records that go back that far. I also called Verizon to confirm that they don’t have any account information with my name on it. Surprisingly they have no record of me ever having an account with them. I then went online to find out if RPM is some sort of scam. They are a “legitimate” company, yet seem to be practicing what I would describe as predatory debt collection, or legal extortion. Unfortunately, there is not much information on the internet yet about RPM. However, there is a lot of information about AFNI, who seem to be doing the same thing.
So, after I found this web page, and read all of the information about AFNI, I downloaded the FDCPA and FCRA and read them. I’m sending RPM a letter in accordance with the FDCPA. I’m also sending the letter to my state’s AG and the WA state AG. (RPM is located in Bothell WA.) I also checked all of my credit reports to make sure that nothing has been placed on them. I’ll continue to monitor my credit reports very closely for the next few months. As this develops I’ll update this comment.
I’m considering contacting a lawyer to see if what RPM is doing is in any way actually extortion. It’s a crime that the max penalty under FDCPA and FCRA is only $1000 or actual damages. Obviously that small amount isn’t enough of an incentive to keep these companies from violating the law. I’m also going to contact my Congressmen about this. Maybe if enough of us complain the law can get changed?
Oh, and a huge thanks to the poster on this site TJ! His information and advice was invaluable!!
Fortunately I have records that go back that far. I also called Verizon to confirm that they don’t have any account information with my name on it. Surprisingly they have no record of me ever having an account with them. I then went online to find out if RPM is some sort of scam. They are a “legitimate” company, yet seem to be practicing what I would describe as predatory debt collection, or legal extortion. Unfortunately, there is not much information on the internet yet about RPM. However, there is a lot of information about AFNI, who seem to be doing the same thing.
So, after I found this web page, and read all of the information about AFNI, I downloaded the FDCPA and FCRA and read them. I’m sending RPM a letter in accordance with the FDCPA. I’m also sending the letter to my state’s AG and the WA state AG. (RPM is located in Bothell WA.) I also checked all of my credit reports to make sure that nothing has been placed on them. I’ll continue to monitor my credit reports very closely for the next few months. As this develops I’ll update this comment.
I’m considering contacting a lawyer to see if what RPM is doing is in any way actually extortion. It’s a crime that the max penalty under FDCPA and FCRA is only $1000 or actual damages. Obviously that small amount isn’t enough of an incentive to keep these companies from violating the law. I’m also going to contact my Congressmen about this. Maybe if enough of us complain the law can get changed?
Oh, and a huge thanks to the poster on this site TJ! His information and advice was invaluable!!
Comments
Sadly, in most cases they are right, since most consumers don't have a clue about how to deal with such practices.
The two key actions to take are to dispute the debt within 30 days of receiving a debt collection letter, and to dispute any erroneous information on credit reports through the credit reporting agencies. Both such disputes should be in writing, mailed certified, since what you are really doing is taking the actions required by FDCPA and FCRA to establish a cause of action to sue them.
Do that, and you are ready to sue if they keep demanding payment, or keep damaging your credit for a debt you do not owe. Too many of the debt collectors playing this game of "chicken" are so incompetent they are unlikely to avoid liability, since they are busy training their employees in what they can get away with, not in how to comply with the law, as can be seen by all the misinformation spouted by debt collectors.
The best game to play is the end game: Sue them.
Let them pay for their damages, and for your attorney.
Let's examine that.
"we are allowed 3 contacts/week, thats Identifying yourself as the debtor, it probably only calls once a day maybe 5 times a week at the most.. "
Numerous complaints indicate many calls a day, even when they notify you you are calling the wrong person. Those are abusive levels of calls, violating FDCPA. The fact that they are occurring means your machines are programmed to call that way. That means there are many more cases of abusive calling than are being reported.;
"All the debts in RPM are valid,"
Like you would know.
"I dont agree with collecting on Southwest Bell, MCI, and telephone companys back in 2000, which are out of statue of limitations, but still a valid debt. "
When they are that old, you have no intention of validating, so you have no idea whether they are valid or not. Good excuse to go to Plan B, and just con people.
"Collection agencys are only obligated to send one Dunning Notice,"
Don't even have to send that as long as you don't contact them.
"millions of people request a piece of paper that tells you the same info im telling people over the phone John Doe owes $______ to _________.. Not very informative. "
Maybe they don't believe you. Of course, when you make up your own "validation", telling them only the amount and alleged creditor, it won't be very informative. You are leaving out any information a consumer might use to disprove the debt, such as what would normally be on the last statement, like the exact name on the bill, the billing address, the date of that bill, and all the other details that would indicate it is real, but would also disclose whether you have the right person.
If you really checked with the original creditor, you would have and provide information from the original account, which would either support your claim that the debt is valid, or refute it. Why don't you do that? Maybe you never actually checked with the original creditor? Maybe you want to collect from all the people you contact in error?
Nice little deception. And you wonder why people don't trust you.
"You only have 30 days to dispute the debt with the original client and 30 days from sending the DN. If you failed to do that, your screwed you owe the debt, "
As noted, there is no federal or state law stating that. All FDCPA states is that YOU, the debt collector, may assume the debt is valid. That does NOT mean it is owed. No court of law may assume that a failure to dispute has ANY bearing on whether the debt is valid. If you routinely screw up your skip-tracing, or only send letters to old addresses, why would it?
Your statement is false and misleading, used to deceive people into paying debts they do not owe. You are required to be trained in compliance with the law. You are also required by FDCPA not to use deception to collect debts. Fraud.
"disputes dont work that well, neither do cease and desist letters."
That is why consumers should sue if you ignore them.
For example, in Washington state, you would contact the Washington State Department of Labor and Industries.
http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/PayReq/Wages/default.asp
You would be wise to do this in a timely fashion, as there is probably a statute of limitations for filing an unpaid wages claim.
and they put me on hold wtf?/
i asked them for my account number they gave it t o me but they couldnt give me my phone number ... kindaa odd?
If they call you repeatedly and no one is on the line, it is not the computer's fault, it is the company that owns and programs the computer. You don't sue inanimate objects, you sue their owners.
IF an alleged account was legitimately yours, they would have information consistent with your own information on the account.
As long as you keep making excuses, rather than fixing your autodialers, you will keep getting complaints, along with more lawsuits.
"Most debtors who dispute it with the original client aren't successful, then the notice gets sent to the last address the client they had on file, not updating that information, or having your mail forwarded is your responsibility as a consumer.. If you ever are questioning a debt, check your credit report, "
If by successful, you mean they stop your harassment, that is no surprise. You can find complaints from consumers where they checked with the original creditor, confirmed they had no owed debt, or even never an account, yet some debt collector will continue to harass them about the verified as non-existent "debt". To deal with an invalid debt, it may be necessary to sue.
None of your internal policies have any relevance. If you tell a consumer they owe a debt because "you didn't dispute it within 30 days", you can get sued regardless of what letters you sent or where you sent them. Your statement, like Melissa's, misrepresents the law, and as such it is deceptive, and therefore when made to a consumer to collect a debt, it violates FDCPA. That was what the federal judge wrote in his decision. That has nothing to do with whether you have old addresses, new addresses, or the consumer had their mail forwarded.
Nor does mailing a letter to an old address relieve you of your obligation to respond to disputes, either under FDCPA or FCRA/FACTA. Even the 30 day dispute period, within which disputing prohibits you from continued collection until you validate, runs from receipt by the consumer of your letter, not from when you send it.
You aren't trying to avoid collection of unowed debts, nor are you trying to avoid harassing the wrong people. Both FDCPA and FCRA place legal obligations on YOU beyond what is required of other businesses. Instead, you are looking for excuses for why you don't have to follow the law. That is the problem.
To all the "collectors" who post here, would it kill you to verify the information of the actual debtors? I always pay everything forward in my account, (My company hasn't been in the red for years now, thank God.) and don't owe anything to anybody.
I don't live in the USA, I am not a citizen, and therefore I don't have a social, yet you keep on calling me over and over for a "debt" I "incurred". There are times, you know, some times, in which the person you are hounded doesn't owe you anything. Not everyone is a deadbeat, as evidenced by the posts of other people who, like me, don't owe a cent to anybody. Ever.
You might even get paid by several people, and may be more likely to get paid by people who don't owe you than by people who do.
As long as the risk of loss from lawsuits is negligible, there are apparently many debt collectors who will toss ethics and legal compliance out the window for a quick buck.
Complaints Mount About Debt Collectors
Seattle PI.com Aug.20,2007
Assault on the Financial Front
Star tribune.com July 12, 2008
Some Debt Collectors are using Illegal Tactics
ABC News.go.com Feb. 8, 2006
More People Complain about Debt Collectors
USA Today.com/money May 22, 2008
As Debt Collectors Multiply so do Consumer Complaints
Washington Post.com July 28, 2005
An Outcry Rises as Debt Collectors Play Rough
NY Times.com July 5, 2006
And lastly, my personal fav...
Viper's Name Intimidates Debt Collection Customers.
In the case of FTC v. CAMCO it was determined that 80% of the monies collected were not even owed by consumers! Many elderly/disabled were preyed upon. CAMCO was shut down. Recently the Missouri AG sued and won judgments against several collection agencies. Collection agencies are one the leading complaints investigated by State AGs.
So PLEASE, stop with this foolishness. There is a real, significant problem here. Oh, and did I mention the FBI is investigating the insurgence of Russian Mafia in the NW (where many of these collection slugs are located)?
As for the "...just doing our job" mantra? Well, so were the guards at Dachau! Facilitators...
No surprise there. A lot of the junk you get is from your clients' "mistakes". Every few years some of your clients get sued, and have to cough up their ill-gotten gain.
"then the notice gets sent to the last address the client they had on file, not updating that information, or having your mail forwarded is your responsibility as a consumer.. "
Then you enter the picture and start sending bills to names drawn out of a hat. All those people you misidentify "just didn't update their information", but since you "found" them now, you tell them it's too late to dispute because of the letters you sent to the real debtor's old address. Brilliant!
"If you ever are questioning a debt, check your credit report, I bet its on there. "
All sorts of stuff is on there, including the junk you put there.
The credit reporting agencies are so "reliable" they have to have "VIP departments" to make sure their cheap, sloppy dispute departments don't [***] some politician, judge, or celebrity, who could take them to the cleaners or pass a law against their sloppy practices. The rest of us get "investigations" outsourced overseas at sweatshop wages through 2 letter codes.
"I hate people who try to trap debtors in the corner trying to file a law suit.. "
The only person who can trap you is you. So far you are doing a pretty good job of it.
"Honestly debtors are the most ignorant, stupid, un educated people, I've met.. "
So are non-debtors, which is why it pays to lie to them. You will probably get paid better for lying to a non-debtor than for lying to a debtor.
So is any random slice through the population.
So are debt collectors. Some shouldn't be allowed to use telephones.
The courts don't expect consumers to be experts in debt collection law, which is why they weigh deception using a "least sophisticated consumer" standard. They do expect YOU to comply with the law, and to not use deception, whether you are stupid and ignorant or not.
"I understand people not getting bills and will to work arrangements out"
What you are still not getting is that most complaints against you are for either attempting to collect from the wrong person, or harassing phone calls to the wrong number. This pattern shows up in your complaints on this site, as well as other sites.
Both types of complaints point to problems with YOUR operation, in identification and skip-tracing, compliance, and handling disputes and validation. You yourself have practically admitted as much, and your mailing policies combined with your "dispute after 30 days means you owe it" guarantees you will have problems with properly handling disputes in compliance with both FDCPA and FCRA.
These problems are not caused by the people you are contacting. They are caused by your own procedures and training.
Just keep in mind that the world you are building today is the one your kids will have to live in.