RPM trying to collect a fake debt

ComplaintsCollection AgenciesReceivables Performance Management (RPM)

Complaint

0
JP
Country: United States
On 4 Apr 08 I got a call from Receivables Performance Management (RPM) claiming that I owe $85 on a Verizon account from 2000.  I know that I’ve never had a Verizon account, and that my phone account from 2000 (I forget which company) was paid properly.  So I told the RPM rep that they were full of s**t, and that I wanted written proof that this debt is actually mine.  They had the last 4 of my SSN and tried to pass that off as “proof” that their info was legitimate.  I still didn’t fall for it and asked for everything in writing.  

Fortunately I have records that go back that far.  I also called Verizon to confirm that they don’t have any account information with my name on it.  Surprisingly they have no record of me ever having an account with them.  I then went online to find out if RPM is some sort of scam.  They are a “legitimate” company, yet seem to be practicing what I would describe as predatory debt collection, or legal extortion.  Unfortunately, there is not much information on the internet yet about RPM.  However, there is a lot of information about AFNI, who seem to be doing the same thing.

So, after I found this web page, and read all of the information about AFNI, I downloaded the FDCPA and FCRA and read them.  I’m sending RPM a letter in accordance with the FDCPA.  I’m also sending the letter to my state’s AG and the WA state AG.  (RPM is located in Bothell WA.)  I also checked all of my credit reports to make sure that nothing has been placed on them.  I’ll continue to monitor my credit reports very closely for the next few months.  As this develops I’ll update this comment.

I’m considering contacting a lawyer to see if what RPM is doing is in any way actually extortion.  It’s a crime that the max penalty under FDCPA and FCRA is only $1000 or actual damages.  Obviously that small amount isn’t enough of an incentive to keep these companies from violating the law.  I’m also going to contact my Congressmen about this.  Maybe if enough of us complain the law can get changed?    

Oh, and a huge thanks to the poster on this site TJ!  His information and advice was invaluable!!

Comments

  • 0
    astounded
    Do they brainwash you to believe that all your "customers" are bad debtors that don't have jobs? Do they tell you that you are superior to anyone that you call or calls you because those people "don't pay their bills"? It would make sense that they tell you that to make you feel better about the way RPM wants you speak to your 'customers'. I find it hard to believe that every person that works for your company has never had a bad debt espicially since an RPM associate says they save a quoted figure of about $325 per American household. Don't act like you never had finacial difficulties of your own. Think about the rocks you throw. Is it legal to place a "refusal to pay" notice on someones account because they stated they didn't like your tone? Whatever liberties the company may encourage you to take with your 'customer's' character I doubt that liberty is acceptable. Do you understand what I am saying? I think the company is leading you to believe something that isn't true because almost every single person that posted from RPM says the same things. I don't blame you for your thoughts. I just ask that you think about it from a real perspective. Your 'bad debtors', 'scums that don't have jobs' are actually the reason you can sit there and say you have one. Most your clients were probably at one point extended more credit based on their credit worthyness than you will ever have issued to you based on the income you recieve. Does it make you jealous? Is that where the anger comes from? Sorry, maybe you don't like my tone?? jk, but seriously think about it. The next time you want help from someone (resteraunt, bookstore, game store, grocery, cleaning staff, pest removal, dentist, teacher....ect) those same people helping you to your burger and fries or whatever are the same people you are harassing daily. Or rather your company is through its employees. What do they call it when someone's moral code is so fierce that they will defy order and coersion and at times even personal safety to uphold it?
  • 0
    astounded
    Oh btw.... I did file a complaint on BBB, thanks for the advise. However, I don't understand how this company has an "A-" rating? What do they do right? I can say they never called me and I did owe the money. But that is where it ends. I had to request a supervisor there for about 5 min. I literally had to repeat the word over and over before they agreed to put one on the phone. When I finally got one all he said is that he would have the recording evaluated and am I going to pay today he wanted to know..... well.... the answer to that is  I paid the original company instead. I don't want them getting a cent!
  • 0
    tj
    "an RPM associate says they save a quoted figure of about $325 per American household."

    That is a B.S. figure the debt collection industry likes to quote.  It doesn't take into account all the damage they do to people whose credit they damage in error, most of whom never get any compensation for their damages.

    Id theft wouldn't exist without the sloppy security of companies who give credit, combined with the similar self-serving policies of the credit reporting agencies, who could end id theft overnight by just allowing instant and free credit lock-down to all consumers.  Instead, they profit from consumers who pay them to try to find what errors are messing up their lives, including running "credit protection" scams with deceptive advertising deliberately designed to fool people into paying money for reports they can order for free, and paying more for "credit scores" no creditor uses.

    And what is this money the debt collectors are saving?  Credit issuing companies already made a business decision to employ sloppy identification and credit qualification procedures, often ignoring even blatant fraud indications on credit reports, "as a business decision".  Having made that choice, shoving the burden to clean up the fraud mess onto some consumer, the merchant or bank then "recovers" some of their fraud loss by selling the fraudulent account to a debt collector who will ignore all earlier fraud complaints, again shoving the fraud clean-up costs onto the already defrauded consumer.  

    They aren't saving anyone money but themselves.
  • 0
    tj
    All BBB cares about in many regions is that a company "respond" to any complaints they forward.  Their response can be B.S.
  • 0
    tj
    Their BBB rating has jumped all the way from "F" several months ago, when their report described complaints similar to those posted here, to "A-" now with no reporting of details on consumer complaints.

    BBB has "sanitized" their report.
  • 0
    suba
    i alwasy paid my bill one time. i never had a verizon account and RPM claiming that i owe $99 to verizon from year of 2007. I asked them to give me proof that says i owe that money. they don't ahve shirt to proof anything with me. Rather then giving me proof she is been asking me that did i watch my credit history for past few years. what a shame, i recently bought a house and a car with my excellent credit history. U guys sucks! i alwasy aware of my bills and pays ontime. What f*** shirt you guys trying to do people? she don't even have my proper name when she called me???? get a real job loosers...
  • 0
    Lynda
    You, sir, are a dirtbag and a loser!

    I am also being victimized by your company fora bill that DIRECTV has no record of, as I turned my service off only ten days after I paid the bill.  All of this vitriol and [***] and threats for $49?  Give me a freaking break!  Your company and the people who work for it are a bunch of petty garbage losers!
  • 0
    Hard Working American
    The fact that you guys sit there on the phones and bother working people 4-5 times a day with your annoying calls is why you get hate and negative responses from people.  Ask yourself this, people do lose their job dont they?  People go through complicated situations dont they? Last thing we need is some rude inconsiderate person sitting on their lazy [***] stalking people multiple times a day asking them to pay up.  You are employed, but can you seriously call that a real job? lol  One day you will be dodging calls from your company..goodluck!
  • 0
    Zane
    I dont know what you guys are all talking about.. I hate when I see people knock my company.. We work within guidelines of the FDCPA, we are allowed 3 contacts/week, thats Identifying yourself as the debtor, it probably only calls once a day maybe 5 times a week at the most.. Yeah some people are rude, think about it we talk to people swearing at us, and making up excuses and not paying there bills.. In my eyes, un educated dead beats. All the debts in RPM are valid, yes, I dont agree with collecting on Southwest Bell, MCI, and telephone companys back in 2000, which are out of statue of limitations, but still a valid debt. People always complain about how they didnt get a notice, ive been in collections with RPM as well, I got the noticed, same amount I owed.. IF you opened an acct at a certain address and recveived bills there, and moved, its your responsibility as a consumer to update that information. If you really want to pay your bills you can check your credit report. I think its a joke how you people think you know what your talking about. Collection agencys are only obligated to send one Dunning Notice, millions of people request a piece of paper that tells you the same info im telling people over the phone John Doe owes $______ to _________.. Not very informative. You only have 30 days to dispute the debt with the original client and 30 days from sending the DN. If you failed to do that, your screwed you owe the debt, disputes dont work that well, neither do cease and desist letters.. Your getting the calls for a reason.. Most Credit Card debt is owned by Resurgent Capital Services, they own debts from jc penny, sears, best buy, old navy, american eagle, HSBC, credit one, capitol one and many other credit cards. You owe the debt there are negative effects, calls, credit, interest, late fees, some creditors have legal depts, and if you dont have a fixed rate on your mortgage your debts could effect your payments... Some of our reps will settle out your acct for the lowest amount, it isnt good for your credit, better than not paying, but if your saving over $1,000 on your bill it may be worth it.. We are more than willing to work with people and help them, but you gotta give us something to work with.. If you really wanna pay your debt you will, I've noticed that the last year collecting. Im done.... We get it @ RPM, we are persistent..
  • 0
    Zane
    Yeah, if you need some education email me.. zanefarhoud88@yahoo.com
  • 0
    joe
    these guys are slime balls. I was making payments to salt river project but was still placed for collection with rpm. I called rpm and disputed the claim and they said they would check it out and not report to the credit reporting agencies. But guess what? these jerks reported it anyway and now it's on my record for 7 years. There show be some way of fighting back but now i'm screwed.
  • 0
     Joe Smoe
    By the way, Yes that company does have FULL SSN.. They only verify the last 4 because its sensitive information and if someone had the whole SSN# you could take there Identity. I know you can type the whole social in the search and it will pull up someones name..
  • 0
    Georgie
    LMAOOOOOOOO go Zane.  You explained it perfectly....in fact I should say you "paraphrased" it like the pro that you are.  I've learned a heck of a lot since working at RPM about debt collection laws and RPM is a legit debt collection agency.  If they were some scam agency, do you think RPM would still be around after all this time?

    PEOPLE!!!!  Pay your bills and you wouldn't have to deal with debt collection calls.  I pay my bills and feel I earn an honest living.  

    I think people feel so negative about debt collectors is that it reminds them of their own failure to own up to their spending sprees and the guilt is just too much, so they blame the "collector".....KWIM?
  • 0
    FunnyGuy
    First...a debt cannot remain on a credit report past 7 years. So, if your *debt* was in 2000, and it is 2008? forget them. if they put it on your credit...sue them. Small claims court, $5,000 maximum and order it removed. ($5,000 for harassment)
    A lot of collection agencies are buying up old, bad, or noncollectable debts to try and turn a fast dollar in the hard economic times we are going through.

    Also, if contacted by telephone, get their name and employee ID number...(in case your disconnected...hehehe) then inform them of the following...

    *UNDER THE FEDERAL FAIR DEBT AND COLLECTION LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES I HAVE THE RIGHT TO INFORM YOU IN THE SAME MANNER YOU HAVE CONTACTED ME, BY TELEPHONE, TO NOT CONTACT ME AGAIN.*
    It does NOT have to be in writing, only in the same manner in which they contacted you...
    ALSO, note the time and date of the call. the VERY next contact is worth $500 in small claims court...(you have name and employee ID number) cost at MOST $100 to file it. Wow, $400 profit.
    the 2ND time they contact you is $1,000. 3rd time is $1,500. and so on.
    get the picture? and this is TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM THE DEBT OWED! this is for VIOLATING FEDERAL DEBT COLLECTION LAWS!!!!!

    Have a GREAT year....

    p.s. this information was given to me by a number one attorney from one of the largest foreclosure firms in the USA. it works!!!
  • 0
    tj
    More important is being able to type someone's name, and get several possible matches with their addresses and SSNs.

    There is nothing to prevent a debt collector with access to credit reports and skip-trace services like Accurint from faking a debt, including faking that your SSN and other id information was used to open the account.  The original account might be real, even actually owed by someone, but if identity or address information was missing from the original creditor, but that is "fixed" by the debt collector to convince someone to pay it who does not owe it, that is an act of both identity theft and fraud.

    There are a number of debt collectors that are clearly doing just that, using access to id information to get SSNs that they fraudulently claim "proves" some consumer "owes" some alleged debt.

    There are also criminals engaged in the same practice, pretending to be debt collectors, but with consumer credit and identity information that they use to fabricate credible claims of "owed" debts out of thin air.

    Using identity information from sources other that the original creditor to con people into paying unowed debts, whether by licensed debt collectors or criminals, should be called by its rightful name:  fraud.

    It is fundamentally a criminal act.
  • 0
    tj
    "All the debts in RPM are valid, "

    That would be statistically impossible.  A lot of "debts" go to collection when the original creditor screws up, sometimes even when they have corrected their own records to correct a billing error.
     
    Congress wouldn't have taken the time to enact FDCPA if there were not a lot of problems with erroneous or abusive debt collection.

     
    "You only have 30 days to dispute the debt with the original client and 30 days from sending the DN.  If you failed to do that, your screwed you owe the debt,"

    Keep believing that, and you will keep getting sued.  

    There can be many reasons consumers might fail to dispute, and they include that you might have sent your letters to some other address, or that one of your debt collectors convinced them they had no right to dispute.  More important is that failing to dispute DOES NOT MAKE A DEBT OWED.

    FDCPA specifically states that failure to dispute may not be construed by any court as proof the debt is owed.  In fact, it could hardly be otherwise.  All your "debts" originated as contracts, in one form or another.  When you go after the wrong person, there was no contract.  Nothing YOU do will make one magically pop into existence, although you might still con them into paying you anyway.  You demand amounts not allowed for in the contract, they are still not owed.  In fact, you do that, and you violate FDCPA.

    Your training is clearly erroneous.  Go read the source, which you should have read AT LEAST ONCE, as part of your training:
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf

    Or let Judge Brenneman explain to you why when the debt collector, "Melissa", told a consumer that they cannot dispute after 30 days she violated FDCPA through use of deception.  (The consumer could have sued her personally, in addition to her employer.)

    http://www.michbar.org/opinions/district/2005/092905/28863.pdf
    "...
    Thus, a debt collector’s statement violates the FDCPA if the statement misleads a consumer “into believing that if the debt is not disputed within 30 days, federal law, rather than just the debt collector, will assume the debt to be valid and owing.”  McCabe v. Crawford & Co., 272 F. Supp. 2d 736, 745 (N.D. Ill. 2003). In short, the validation provision of §1692g(a)(3) “provides only that the debt collector may assume the debt to be valid.”
    ...
    After viewing the factual evidence and drawing all reasonable inferences in favor of the nonmoving party, the court concludes that there is no genuine issue of material fact that the statements of defendant’s collector (Melissa) violated § 1692e(2)(A) and (10). Given the litigious
    nature of our society, it would be neither bizarre nor idiosyncratic for the least sophisticated consumer to believe after listening to Melissa (1) that his failure to dispute the debt within thirty days of receiving the debt validation letter made him legally responsible for the debt and (2) that at this late stage only by proving fraudulent activity on the part of the bank could he show his “dispute was valid.”

    "Most Credit Card debt is owned by Resurgent Capital Services"

    Hardly, but LVNV, Sherman, and related companies are one of the larger ones.  They also have a long history of complaints of sending deceptive "validation", mostly "affidavits" made by their own employees which have no bearing on whether the original creditor has validated the debt.  Probably why FTC recently asked them for information as part of their investigation into debt collection problems.
  • 0
    tj
    What you are referring to is Watson v. NCO, where the judge decided that NCO had violated TCPA by repeatedly calling Watson (who did not owe the alleged debt they were trying to collect), despite repeated requests to cease calling him.

    TCPA violations add up fast, on a per call basis, since they were designed to stop telemarketing calls in violation of the Do Not Call list.
  • 0
    tj
    Since BBB has removed the formerly posted summaries of consumer complaint information, and "rehabilitated" them all the way from "F" to "A-", you can assume that a BBB complaint is unlikely to be effective if you are dealing with violations of federal or state law such as abusive or harassing collection, deceptive collection, failing to validate, attempting to collect on an unowed debt, etc.

    Contact your state Attorney General, or the Washington state Attorney General for assistance.
  • 0
    tj
    "refusal to pay" is just a debt collector talk-off used on consumers trying to dispute some debt they don't recognize.  The debt collector is attempting to divert the consumer from sending a dispute they are legally entitled to send, by making a phony veiled threat that they will place some mythical damaging "bad mark" on their credit reports.

    A substantial number of alleged debts in collection contain errors, even being entirely erroneous as a result of billing errors, or due to the wrong person being dunned.  There are many cases (as you can see from complaints on this site and others), where debt collectors are attempting to collect on unowed debts, and consumers wish to dispute and request proof of the alleged debt before determining whether to pay it.  Consumers have a right to dispute debts, as provided for by federal and state laws, notably FDCPA.  

    Debt collectors employ various deceptive or abusive tactics to try to evade such consumer disputes, knowing that most consumers do not know the law, or even much about credit reports.  In fact, abusive actions or deceptive statements like "refusal to pay" are a red flag indicating that the debt collector knows there is something questionable about the alleged debt.  

    For example, the debt collector may know that they regularly send out collection letters to anyone with a similar name, including routinely sending letters to people who don't actually owe anything.

    The proper legally compliant answer to a consumer disputing an alleged debt in a phone call is for the debt collector to provide their address and tell th consumer to send in a written dispute.  Other responses are deceptive, run counter to the notices the debt collector is required to to send to the consumer, and aimed at interfering with the consumer's right to dispute.
  • 0
    Holy Mackeral
    If I truly had a debt of $99.70, with whomever I am quite certain whomeve would have spent a few stamps to demand payment. No bank I have ever worked with and no utility would allow debts this large to pass them by. In the case of utilities, they can shut down your phone service, or shut off your power, or put your water under lock and key. Now the retailers who deal through cards have quite a procedure to collect their money. So now, where the hell is RPM digging up this crap? The next computer phone call I get, which also shows the height of rudeness and lack of upbringing, I will do much more than hang up. There are a number of games ones can play if they desire to keep this up.

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